TA Reached
12-30-2022, 06:34 AM
#741
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 896
You’d think so but they also lied to the market and shareholders for months about frontier being a superior proposal. They also out-negotiate us every cycle so I don’t put anything past them besides figuring out how to run a good business.
12-31-2022, 09:24 AM
#742
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 723
Our management team is *ALWAYS* thinking of the Long Game when it comes to negotiations. I'm convinced it's the only Long Game they play, based on how the entire airline is run.
*disclaimer* this is my opinion only and I'm not trying to influence anyone else's vote. Please, just vote. One way or another, just everyone vote.
12-31-2022, 09:29 AM
#743
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,283
Anyone who votes yes to this not thinking of the Long Game. These are extremely Short Game payrates for us, but Long Game bar-lowering for every other airline out there. Including ourselves when they raise first year rates and negate any "leverage" we might have had.
Our management team is *ALWAYS* thinking of the Long Game when it comes to negotiations. I'm convinced it's the only Long Game they play, based on how the entire airline is run.
*disclaimer* this is my opinion only and I'm not trying to influence anyone else's vote. Please, just vote. One way or another, just everyone vote.
Our management team is *ALWAYS* thinking of the Long Game when it comes to negotiations. I'm convinced it's the only Long Game they play, based on how the entire airline is run.
*disclaimer* this is my opinion only and I'm not trying to influence anyone else's vote. Please, just vote. One way or another, just everyone vote.
12-31-2022, 10:21 AM
#744
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,356
Anyone who votes yes to this not thinking of the Long Game. These are extremely Short Game payrates for us, but Long Game bar-lowering for every other airline out there. Including ourselves when they raise first year rates and negate any "leverage" we might have had.
Our management team is *ALWAYS* thinking of the Long Game when it comes to negotiations. I'm convinced it's the only Long Game they play, based on how the entire airline is run.
*disclaimer* this is my opinion only and I'm not trying to influence anyone else's vote. Please, just vote. One way or another, just everyone vote.
Our management team is *ALWAYS* thinking of the Long Game when it comes to negotiations. I'm convinced it's the only Long Game they play, based on how the entire airline is run.
*disclaimer* this is my opinion only and I'm not trying to influence anyone else's vote. Please, just vote. One way or another, just everyone vote.
Disclaimer: Vote what feels right to your situation, not trying to sway votes
12-31-2022, 10:25 AM
#745
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 394
I agree with that, in the case that the merger passes approval (high possibility).
This TA will give Spirit the ability to drag out negotiations if the merger fails though. It will bring attrition to the desired level which keeps a large portion of pilots on the lower end of the longevity range, but with the ability to have industry leading first year pay to ease any hiring pressures. Dragging out negotiations won’t be as painful with the higher pay rates though, so their is that.
Both yes and no voters are probably looking at different long term issues. It’s a tough call, their is valid reasoning to vote yes or no.
This TA will give Spirit the ability to drag out negotiations if the merger fails though. It will bring attrition to the desired level which keeps a large portion of pilots on the lower end of the longevity range, but with the ability to have industry leading first year pay to ease any hiring pressures. Dragging out negotiations won’t be as painful with the higher pay rates though, so their is that.
Both yes and no voters are probably looking at different long term issues. It’s a tough call, their is valid reasoning to vote yes or no.
12-31-2022, 10:29 AM
#746
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 394
This is a good point, which is the reason why I would consider changing to a yes.
12-31-2022, 10:37 AM
#747
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,356
Personally, I mentally prepare for the worse in these types of situations. Assuming a “no” vote, I would rather go to the JCBA with the new rates than the old. Especially if it’s gonna last until ~the mid 2020s.
12-31-2022, 10:46 AM
#748
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 394
Yes, I see your point. It’s a toss up for me. With the TA they’ll certainly be able to drag out negotiations and our leverage point will be the NMB in mediation. Without this TA they won’t be to drag it out, our leverage will be hiring and attrition. Take the higher pay and drag it out, or take no pay raise and gamble for something soon. I don’t know, Just my opinion.
12-31-2022, 12:46 PM
#749
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,356
Yes, I see your point. It’s a toss up for me. With the TA they’ll certainly be able to drag out negotiations and our leverage point will be the NMB in mediation. Without this TA they won’t be to drag it out, our leverage will be hiring and attrition. Take the higher pay and drag it out, or take no pay raise and gamble for something soon. I don’t know, Just my opinion.
I do appreciate this conversation. It’s been thoughtful and insightful
12-31-2022, 12:54 PM
#750
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,203
All fair points. Something that might happen is that attrition will be as it is today (maybe a smidge less). The reason is because even with our pay raise, the legacies will get a raise too. This would leave us with a similar pay disparity similar to today (before JCBA, of course). This get us our leverage back and helping negotiations.
I do appreciate this conversation. It’s been thoughtful and insightful
I do appreciate this conversation. It’s been thoughtful and insightful
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