TA Reached
#681
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 156
TA FAQ:
How is allowing the Company the flexibility to raise first year pay up to 98.5% of second year pay not giving up leverage? Isn’t it a concession?
To evaluate the leverage that we would retain if this provision was not included, we only need to look at the past year. Without raising first year rates, Spirit was able to hire and retain more than enough pilots to staff its growing fleet of aircraft. Higher first year pay rates are not sufficient to attract pilots.
They will 100% come back to negotiate if we vote no. It is absurd to think the company's motivations for coming to the table 6 months early completely vanished.
This whole thing reeks of the NC trying to slip something under our noses. My guess is the only thing in the TA that makes sense: 12Y CA pay.
#682
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Bus Driver
Posts: 125
You do realize the FAQ and road shows are a sales pitch? There are many positions that they push that can be argued either way. But, they are absolutely 100% wrong on this TA and it's ultimate effect on a potential SLI. Voting this in immediately blows opens the argument of career expectation. We voted in a contract, with full knowledge of what are JB brethern negotiated, that is significantly less lucrative. It's a recent event that shows we have a lower expectation and can and will be used against us.
#683
You do realize the FAQ and road shows are a sales pitch? There are many positions that they push that can be argued either way. But, they are absolutely 100% wrong on this TA and it's ultimate effect on a potential SLI. Voting this in immediately blows opens the argument of career expectation. We voted in a contract, with full knowledge of what are JB brethern negotiated, that is significantly less lucrative. It's a recent event that shows we have a lower expectation and can and will be used against us.
#686
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Office Chair
Posts: 637
Okay Halon’s goofy hat is off for a second…
I recently went to the road show and I have to say I went from a yes to a definite YES.
They explained things pretty clearly and definitely know what they are talking about. I really had no idea before how bad Spirits position was, like how Legacies make lots more revenue on other stuff…it makes sense just never thought of it that way. How legacy pilot labor expense ratio is a lot less (I always assumed it was more). How Spirit had to borrow lots of money because of up coming expenses (like this pilot contract coming up) also to make sure we had enough cash to cover credit card transactions because Spirits cash got to a critically low point.
you can talk all you want that they are trying to scare us. But that is the truth, we really arnt in the position that Delta is in. They acknowledged that yes we fly the same planes and have the same responsibilities as our peers but the ULCC model just definitely isn’t favorable to what we want.
here is some good news through…they do have a plan to bring us to narrow body Legacy rates relatively quickly. They 3 step plan they talked about…and let’s be honest the JetBlue merger really needs to happen…
the SLI stuff is really why we need a contract now and not after JetBlue votes. It’s really the timing of it. But anyways I’m getting tired of writing…lots to explain. But if you want I encourage all of you to watch that discussion about halfway through the virtual video they have on the ALPA website.
Did I expect $20/hour more from this TA? Yes absolutely but this is still a pretty significant pay raise in the next step to the JetBlue merger.
also I hear a lot of stuff about how guys want the union to go after the company on work rules…dude you don’t want to go down that road. You know they are going to try to take work rules away and not give us favorable work rules and that will drag this thing out even further.
anyways that my 2¢ why that road show solidified my YES vote.
(okay goofy hat back on)
I recently went to the road show and I have to say I went from a yes to a definite YES.
They explained things pretty clearly and definitely know what they are talking about. I really had no idea before how bad Spirits position was, like how Legacies make lots more revenue on other stuff…it makes sense just never thought of it that way. How legacy pilot labor expense ratio is a lot less (I always assumed it was more). How Spirit had to borrow lots of money because of up coming expenses (like this pilot contract coming up) also to make sure we had enough cash to cover credit card transactions because Spirits cash got to a critically low point.
you can talk all you want that they are trying to scare us. But that is the truth, we really arnt in the position that Delta is in. They acknowledged that yes we fly the same planes and have the same responsibilities as our peers but the ULCC model just definitely isn’t favorable to what we want.
here is some good news through…they do have a plan to bring us to narrow body Legacy rates relatively quickly. They 3 step plan they talked about…and let’s be honest the JetBlue merger really needs to happen…
the SLI stuff is really why we need a contract now and not after JetBlue votes. It’s really the timing of it. But anyways I’m getting tired of writing…lots to explain. But if you want I encourage all of you to watch that discussion about halfway through the virtual video they have on the ALPA website.
Did I expect $20/hour more from this TA? Yes absolutely but this is still a pretty significant pay raise in the next step to the JetBlue merger.
also I hear a lot of stuff about how guys want the union to go after the company on work rules…dude you don’t want to go down that road. You know they are going to try to take work rules away and not give us favorable work rules and that will drag this thing out even further.
anyways that my 2¢ why that road show solidified my YES vote.
(okay goofy hat back on)
#687
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 182
Did you, as a pilot, have anything to do with the company's cash flow getting to a critically low point? Management's inability to generate a profit and positive cash flow are not my job, and not my cross to bear. They aren't willing to share in the profits, and I'm not willing to share in their losses. They had to borrow cash to make payments necessary for running a business, I had to borrow cash to buy my house. BFD. If they can't figure out how to generate profits with record demand, then management has failed us, not the other way around. This is about whether or not we as a group are willing to be subjugated to second- or third-tier status, and, accordingly, commensurate compensation, when you and I know we do the same job with less tools and support than our peers. Know your worth, and vote accordingly, or be willing to live as the red-headed step-children of the industry for the rest of your middling career.
So while I get what you’re saying, yeah, it kind of is your problem. Lots of pilots in the past 50 years have been ****ed by bad management.
#688
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 182
Did you, as a pilot, have anything to do with the company's cash flow getting to a critically low point? Management's inability to generate a profit and positive cash flow are not my job, and not my cross to bear. They aren't willing to share in the profits, and I'm not willing to share in their losses. They had to borrow cash to make payments necessary for running a business, I had to borrow cash to buy my house. BFD. If they can't figure out how to generate profits with record demand, then management has failed us, not the other way around. This is about whether or not we as a group are willing to be subjugated to second- or third-tier status, and, accordingly, commensurate compensation, when you and I know we do the same job with less tools and support than our peers. Know your worth, and vote accordingly, or be willing to live as the red-headed step-children of the industry for the rest of your middling career.
So while I get what you’re saying, yeah, it kind of is your problem. Lots of pilots in the past 50 years have been screwed by bad management.
#689
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 182
Did you, as a pilot, have anything to do with the company's cash flow getting to a critically low point? Management's inability to generate a profit and positive cash flow are not my job, and not my cross to bear. They aren't willing to share in the profits, and I'm not willing to share in their losses. They had to borrow cash to make payments necessary for running a business, I had to borrow cash to buy my house. BFD. If they can't figure out how to generate profits with record demand, then management has failed us, not the other way around. This is about whether or not we as a group are willing to be subjugated to second- or third-tier status, and, accordingly, commensurate compensation, when you and I know we do the same job with less tools and support than our peers. Know your worth, and vote accordingly, or be willing to live as the red-headed step-children of the industry for the rest of your middling career.
#690
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,283
Did you, as a pilot, have anything to do with the company's cash flow getting to a critically low point? Management's inability to generate a profit and positive cash flow are not my job, and not my cross to bear. They aren't willing to share in the profits, and I'm not willing to share in their losses. They had to borrow cash to make payments necessary for running a business, I had to borrow cash to buy my house. BFD. If they can't figure out how to generate profits with record demand, then management has failed us, not the other way around. This is about whether or not we as a group are willing to be subjugated to second- or third-tier status, and, accordingly, commensurate compensation, when you and I know we do the same job with less tools and support than our peers. Know your worth, and vote accordingly, or be willing to live as the red-headed step-children of the industry for the rest of your middling career.
Johnny wants a new Mountain bike for Christmas…his friends Tommy said his parents are getting him one.
Tommy’s dad makes lots of money and can afford it.
Christmas morning arrives and Johnny opens his present and it’s a pair of roller skates….kinda cool but not as cool a mountain bike.
Johnny starts kicking and screaming throwing a tantrum. Johnny’s mom says “Please Johnny, you know we are going through a hardship right now your father just recently got a pay cut at work and the bills are pulling up. This is the best we can offer you.”
johnny says “I don’t care about your effing situation, that’s not my fault…I want a cool toy like Tommy has.”
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