TA Reached
12-11-2022, 02:03 PM
#321
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 417
To be fair though, ANYONE spouting off numbers for when anything gets done re: JCBA and anything related to the merger is full of it. I’ve only heard from my rep that “it’s in their best interest to quickly get a JCBA so the merger can happen”, but we were told the same for them hurrying along this TA to stem the attrition. If they rush the JCBA like they did this (3 months) will it be argued that it’s the best we can get?
12-11-2022, 02:06 PM
#322
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Guppy
Posts: 764
Care to explain? Negotiations don't happen overnight. For a merger that may not be finalized for another 3+ years, it's totally plausible that a JCBA *could* lag behind at least that long. Ask the HP/US pilots.
The "if it happens at all" part was meant to consider the possibility that the merger falls through, not that you wouldn't see a JCBA if it doesn't.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
The "if it happens at all" part was meant to consider the possibility that the merger falls through, not that you wouldn't see a JCBA if it doesn't.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
12-11-2022, 02:08 PM
#323
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
You know what's a fun game.
Go back and look at any TA that was passed in the last 5 years, find the corresponding thread on these forums, and notice the common theme.
1) Handful of that airline's pilots saying "its junk, no way"
2) Many pilots from other airlines saying "It's junk, you're worth more, hold the line"
3) Predictions and forum created polls predicting overwhelming percentage of "no" votes
4) TA ends up passing by large margin.
Currently DAL pilots are having the same back and forth "this is a dog" on their threads, and Alaska had the same with their recently passed TA.
Doesn't take a genius to know how this will go. But its fun to watch the hysteria and all the "help" from the outside
Go back and look at any TA that was passed in the last 5 years, find the corresponding thread on these forums, and notice the common theme.
1) Handful of that airline's pilots saying "its junk, no way"
2) Many pilots from other airlines saying "It's junk, you're worth more, hold the line"
3) Predictions and forum created polls predicting overwhelming percentage of "no" votes
4) TA ends up passing by large margin.
Currently DAL pilots are having the same back and forth "this is a dog" on their threads, and Alaska had the same with their recently passed TA.
Doesn't take a genius to know how this will go. But its fun to watch the hysteria and all the "help" from the outside
12-11-2022, 02:13 PM
#324
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
Care to explain? Negotiations don't happen overnight. For a merger that may not be finalized for another 3+ years, it's totally plausible that a JCBA *could* lag behind at least that long. Ask the HP/US pilots.
The "if it happens at all" part was meant to consider the possibility that the merger falls through, not that you wouldn't see a JCBA if it doesn't.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
The "if it happens at all" part was meant to consider the possibility that the merger falls through, not that you wouldn't see a JCBA if it doesn't.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
Merger policy has been corrected that a JCBA must come before any ISL is decided on, and if at any time the SLI will be completed prior to the JCBA, the SLI process is instructed to stop so that the JCBA can finish first.
So no, you are not going to see 7 years like you said for a JCBA. JBLU cant proceed with the merger until a JCBA is completed, meaning they will be running two independent airlines. Neither NK or JBLU allow for forced arbitration like AK/VA did. They have to come to a deal or no shiny new toy for Robin.
If the merger fails, we open section 6 back up with Spirit.
12-11-2022, 02:18 PM
#325
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 200
I'm just wondering why he applied at Spirit in the first place if he claims he turned down the interview because of training pay. Logical fallacy?
It's because he was willing to accept it but then had a better offer come his way, and now he wants to sound like a hero. Lame.
It's because he was willing to accept it but then had a better offer come his way, and now he wants to sound like a hero. Lame.
12-11-2022, 02:39 PM
#327
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 91
Allowing the company to adjust solely first year rates at 98.5% of 2nd year pay. The company's only concern is attrition mostly in the first few years of fo's and attracting new fo's. So giving them this without pushing higher rates for everyone else is a conession because there's no going back once we give them this. Imo opinion we have two major points of leverage the first and biggest being the attrition/hiring problem. Second is below current industry pay. The second has never been a huge urgency for management to want to negotiate correct me if I'm wrong.
12-11-2022, 02:40 PM
#328
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 26
You know what's a fun game.
Go back and look at any TA that was passed in the last 5 years, find the corresponding thread on these forums, and notice the common theme.
1) Handful of that airline's pilots saying "its junk, no way"
2) Many pilots from other airlines saying "It's junk, you're worth more, hold the line"
3) Predictions and forum created polls predicting overwhelming percentage of "no" votes
4) TA ends up passing by large margin.
Currently DAL pilots are having the same back and forth "this is a dog" on their threads, and Alaska had the same with their recently passed TA.
Doesn't take a genius to know how this will go. But its fun to watch the hysteria and all the "help" from the outside
Go back and look at any TA that was passed in the last 5 years, find the corresponding thread on these forums, and notice the common theme.
1) Handful of that airline's pilots saying "its junk, no way"
2) Many pilots from other airlines saying "It's junk, you're worth more, hold the line"
3) Predictions and forum created polls predicting overwhelming percentage of "no" votes
4) TA ends up passing by large margin.
Currently DAL pilots are having the same back and forth "this is a dog" on their threads, and Alaska had the same with their recently passed TA.
Doesn't take a genius to know how this will go. But its fun to watch the hysteria and all the "help" from the outside
This right here, people don’t realize that they go into chat rooms and forums that have the same 10-20 guys going back and fort why they are no votes and **** on and scare off anyone on the fence trying to have meaningful convo and could be swayed to a no vote. Yes voters don’t participate in the back and forth in these chats and forum so it’s never a representation of the pilot group. People see 10-20 guys going back and forth and assume everyone is ****ed. And because there is this assumption that everyone is ****ed, people on the line who are yes voters or might be on the fence won’t admit it because they don’t want to look like sell outs. Then the TA passes.
12-11-2022, 02:40 PM
#329
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Guppy
Posts: 764
I'm just wondering why he applied at Spirit in the first place if he claims he turned down the interview because of training pay. Logical fallacy?
It's because he was willing to accept it but then had a better offer come his way, and now he wants to sound like a hero. Lame.
It's because he was willing to accept it but then had a better offer come his way, and now he wants to sound like a hero. Lame.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
12-11-2022, 02:42 PM
#330
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Guppy
Posts: 764
HP/UA was because of the SLI award. The merger policy at that time allowed for the SLI to come before the JCBA. So ALPA learned this is a bad bad thing to have, allowing one side to then hold up a JCBA in hopes that the ISL wont be implemented.
Merger policy has been corrected that a JCBA must come before any ISL is decided on, and if at any time the SLI will be completed prior to the JCBA, the SLI process is instructed to stop so that the JCBA can finish first.
So no, you are not going to see 7 years like you said for a JCBA. JBLU cant proceed with the merger until a JCBA is completed, meaning they will be running two independent airlines. Neither NK or JBLU allow for forced arbitration like AK/VA did. They have to come to a deal or no shiny new toy for Robin.
If the merger fails, we open section 6 back up with Spirit.
Merger policy has been corrected that a JCBA must come before any ISL is decided on, and if at any time the SLI will be completed prior to the JCBA, the SLI process is instructed to stop so that the JCBA can finish first.
So no, you are not going to see 7 years like you said for a JCBA. JBLU cant proceed with the merger until a JCBA is completed, meaning they will be running two independent airlines. Neither NK or JBLU allow for forced arbitration like AK/VA did. They have to come to a deal or no shiny new toy for Robin.
If the merger fails, we open section 6 back up with Spirit.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
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