TA Reached
12-09-2022, 03:34 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: 320 Captain
Posts: 172
Lets all be clear what this TA is designed to do, and that is attract and retain FOs. Period.
In our current state, we do not need more Captains. They are losing very few in comparison to FOs. The only reason they are negotiating with us at this moment is because they need to attract and retain more FOs. The company has painted themselves into a corner in our current contract that requires them to clear pay raises with the union. This new TA is designed to circumvent the single, biggest, piece of leverage we have. If we say yes to this, we allow the company to offer more money to new hires without our input.
Another important point that this 2 year deal does for the company is to buy them some time. JB is currently bleeding pilots too. This does not solve the problem of actually retaining pilots, it's meant to approach this statistically and decrease the numbers of pilots who will now come here being that first year would be now livable, and to hopefully reduce the numbers leaving as compared to now. What this contract does, is buy them time. ATP certificates issued this year alone is much higher than in recent. They will hire 1500 hour wonders in a heartbeat.
ATP Certs issued
Vote NO. We cannot concede to these laughably low pay rates. We will never have this much leverage.
And remember, just a few months ago, this is the same management group that said the DOJ would NEVER approve a JB merger and said they saw no reason to increase pay over the next 5 years.
In our current state, we do not need more Captains. They are losing very few in comparison to FOs. The only reason they are negotiating with us at this moment is because they need to attract and retain more FOs. The company has painted themselves into a corner in our current contract that requires them to clear pay raises with the union. This new TA is designed to circumvent the single, biggest, piece of leverage we have. If we say yes to this, we allow the company to offer more money to new hires without our input.
Another important point that this 2 year deal does for the company is to buy them some time. JB is currently bleeding pilots too. This does not solve the problem of actually retaining pilots, it's meant to approach this statistically and decrease the numbers of pilots who will now come here being that first year would be now livable, and to hopefully reduce the numbers leaving as compared to now. What this contract does, is buy them time. ATP certificates issued this year alone is much higher than in recent. They will hire 1500 hour wonders in a heartbeat.
ATP Certs issued
Vote NO. We cannot concede to these laughably low pay rates. We will never have this much leverage.
And remember, just a few months ago, this is the same management group that said the DOJ would NEVER approve a JB merger and said they saw no reason to increase pay over the next 5 years.
12-09-2022, 03:37 PM
#93
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 30
Everyone thinking management won’t come back to the table asap is delusional. You can see how desperate they are right now. Our contract hasn’t even expired and they want a new deal done. They can’t attract pilots and thats why we are losing money as a company. To take this deal and give away all our leverage would be absolutely dumb. Plus giving the company the ability to change 1st year pay whenever they want, they must think we are the dumbest pilot group ever. Obviously they think we are look at what got approved.
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12-09-2022, 03:48 PM
#95
CA-ORD
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 175
Reading these LAS and ORD base chats, it cracks me up the people saying "Yes Vote." One FO is so ecstatic for his $5 an hour raise he's voting YES without any hesitation. Guess these guys are clueless when it comes to inflation,and like taking it from the rear all the time, being again, THE bottom feeder airline.
Just pathetic.................
Just pathetic.................
12-09-2022, 03:49 PM
#96
CA-ORD
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 175
Enjoy that ****ty low tier pay raise. I will happily wait so I can get paid what "most" of this pilot group deserves. Then again, I live within my means. Probably still have guys here (you included) sh|t deep in debt that you can not afford a NO vote....
12-09-2022, 04:00 PM
#97
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 11
Guys please have some respect for each other. Remember we were the pilot group that had each other's backs during a pandemic. Don't let management tear us apart.
I feel strongly one way (no vote). But I respect my fellow coworkers and we all have reasons for our opinions. We can disagree without attacking our coworkers. I know this is APC but let's try and keep this constructive.
I feel strongly one way (no vote). But I respect my fellow coworkers and we all have reasons for our opinions. We can disagree without attacking our coworkers. I know this is APC but let's try and keep this constructive.
12-09-2022, 04:01 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: NK CA
Posts: 856
Guys please have some respect for each other. Remember we were the pilot group that had each other's backs during a pandemic. Don't let management tear us apart.
I feel strongly one way (no vote). But i respect my fellow coworkers and we all have reasons for our opinions. We can disagree without attacking our coworkers. I know this is APC but let's try and keep this civil?
I feel strongly one way (no vote). But i respect my fellow coworkers and we all have reasons for our opinions. We can disagree without attacking our coworkers. I know this is APC but let's try and keep this civil?
12-09-2022, 04:03 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 111
Lets all be clear what this TA is designed to do, and that is attract and retain FOs. Period.
In our current state, we do not need more Captains. They are losing very few in comparison to FOs. The only reason they are negotiating with us at this moment is because they need to attract and retain more FOs. The company has painted themselves into a corner in our current contract that requires them to clear pay raises with the union. This new TA is designed to circumvent the single, biggest, piece of leverage we have. If we say yes to this, we allow the company to offer more money to new hires without our input.
Another important point that this 2 year deal does for the company is to buy them some time. JB is currently bleeding pilots too. This does not solve the problem of actually retaining pilots, it's meant to approach this statistically and decrease the numbers of pilots who will now come here being that first year would be now livable, and to hopefully reduce the numbers leaving as compared to now. What this contract does, is buy them time. ATP certificates issued this year alone is much higher than in recent. They will hire 1500 hour wonders in a heartbeat.
ATP Certs issued
Vote NO. We cannot concede to these laughably low pay rates. We will never have this much leverage.
And remember, just a few months ago, this is the same management group that said the DOJ would NEVER approve a JB merger and said they saw no reason to increase pay over the next 5 years.
In our current state, we do not need more Captains. They are losing very few in comparison to FOs. The only reason they are negotiating with us at this moment is because they need to attract and retain more FOs. The company has painted themselves into a corner in our current contract that requires them to clear pay raises with the union. This new TA is designed to circumvent the single, biggest, piece of leverage we have. If we say yes to this, we allow the company to offer more money to new hires without our input.
Another important point that this 2 year deal does for the company is to buy them some time. JB is currently bleeding pilots too. This does not solve the problem of actually retaining pilots, it's meant to approach this statistically and decrease the numbers of pilots who will now come here being that first year would be now livable, and to hopefully reduce the numbers leaving as compared to now. What this contract does, is buy them time. ATP certificates issued this year alone is much higher than in recent. They will hire 1500 hour wonders in a heartbeat.
ATP Certs issued
Vote NO. We cannot concede to these laughably low pay rates. We will never have this much leverage.
And remember, just a few months ago, this is the same management group that said the DOJ would NEVER approve a JB merger and said they saw no reason to increase pay over the next 5 years.
Exactly right! 426 FOs gone YTD, less than 71 CAs. This TA is for FOs and it does nothing to address that. Training pay industry lacking and an insult. No medical insurance for 90 days. It’s a horrific first attempt. They need to start over and try again. Getting hired almost anywhere else would yield significant gains financially for a prospective new FO here.
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12-09-2022, 04:14 PM
#100
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 30
Seriously?! Everyone said I was terrible when I voted no for the last contract. Just remember management has NEVER been on our side.
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