Search

Notices

AIP reached

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-14-2022, 08:30 AM
  #381  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,480
Default

Originally Posted by Halon1211
I think it’s funny that in the same thought you think this is a crap TA, but if this TA passes using your same logic we should still have plenty of leverage because people would still be leaving.

so in other-words, if the TA passes and the JetBlue merger fails. We go back straight to negotiations and we have just as much leverage. (Because using your logic this is a crappy TA and people will still be leaving anyways)


we are in a win-win situation if we say yes to this TA!
Please explain how we have the same leverage when the company can raise first year pay to within a percentage of second year pay? I agree it may not help attrition but it definitely helps them with attraction. We'll be negotiating for years, not months.
putzin is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 09:01 AM
  #382  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,014
Default

Originally Posted by symbian simian
I think for now the company will wait and see because they think this TA is good enough to get people to stay.
Probably good enough to pass, but not good enough for people to stay.
tom11011 is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 09:02 AM
  #383  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 394
Default

Originally Posted by tom11011
Probably good enough to pass, but not good enough for people to stay.
Good enough for enough people to stay. This passes, leverage gone.

Attrition will go down.
Lakeaffect is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 09:02 AM
  #384  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,283
Default

Originally Posted by tom11011
Probably good enough to pass, but not good enough for people to stay.

…and that is why we STILL have leverage!!! Well said.

a win-win if this TA passes!
Halon1211 is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 09:05 AM
  #385  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,283
Default

Originally Posted by Lakeaffect
Good enough for enough people to stay. This passes, leverage gone.

Attrition will go down.

swing and a miss…
Halon1211 is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 09:13 AM
  #386  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,203
Default

Originally Posted by Lakeaffect
Good enough for enough people to stay. This passes, leverage gone.

Attrition will go down.
This passes it will make zero short term difference. Must be 100-120 guys with CJOs elsewhere awaiting their class dates right now. And at least as many more burnishing their resumes and prepping for interviews. I think without really major changes in benefits and compensation, NK may wind up like AK. The lifers are those with too much invested in their seniority to leave or locals who are putting up with less than the legacies because of their bases.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 09:54 AM
  #387  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 417
Default

Originally Posted by Halon1211
I think it’s funny that in the same thought you think this is a crap TA, but if this TA passes using your same logic we should still have plenty of leverage because people would still be leaving.

so in other-words, if the TA passes and the JetBlue merger fails. We go back straight to negotiations and we have just as much leverage. (Because using your logic this is a crappy TA and people will still be leaving anyways)


we are in a win-win situation if we say yes to this TA!
I get what you’re saying (finally) but what if this does make a big dent in attrition/retention(even halving the losses)? It probably won’t, but if it does, and the leverage (of refusing to allow them to adjust first year pay without benefiting the rest) does go away for future negotiations because of that, is it still a good deal? And let’s not use any assumptions that the TPA and JCBA get accomplished quickly, raise pay, “two bites”, and all those wishes. Just this TA on its own.
onedolla is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 09:56 AM
  #388  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Chimpy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,542
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog
This passes it will make zero short term difference. Must be 100-120 guys with CJOs elsewhere awaiting their class dates right now. And at least as many more burnishing their resumes and prepping for interviews. I think without really major changes in benefits and compensation, NK may wind up like AK. The lifers are those with too much invested in their seniority to leave or locals who are putting up with less than the legacies because of their bases.
yeah but unlike AK we get the opportunity to negotiate with our JB brothers & sister for a JCBA
Chimpy is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 10:11 AM
  #389  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 394
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog
This passes it will make zero short term difference. Must be 100-120 guys with CJOs elsewhere awaiting their class dates right now. And at least as many more burnishing their resumes and prepping for interviews. I think without really major changes in benefits and compensation, NK may wind up like AK. The lifers are those with too much invested in their seniority to leave or locals who are putting up with less than the legacies because of their bases.
If this passes nobody knows what will happen with hiring and attrition. You think it won’t make a difference, but Spirit thinks it will otherwise they wouldn’t offer it. I tend to agree with Spirit that it will help. But we don’t know for sure, I could be wrong. The only thing we know for sure is that we have an INSANE amount of leverage right now.

EDIT:
I think Spirit knows maybe it’s not enough, but it buys them time. If this passes, they can manage long enough till the JCBA.
Lakeaffect is offline  
Old 12-14-2022, 12:51 PM
  #390  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Airplanes
Posts: 1,405
Default

Originally Posted by Chimpy
yeah but unlike AK we get the opportunity to negotiate with our JB brothers & sister for a JCBA
You're assuming the B6/NK merger is approved. If it isn't, then we're stuck with this half-baked TA for years waiting for Franke and Co. to really hose us.
Macjet is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
avi8tor220
Delta
1746
01-22-2023 08:06 PM
tennisguru
Delta
432
12-08-2022 05:42 PM
Kingairguy200
Endeavor Air
20
11-29-2022 09:52 PM
Mugatu
Frontier
0
11-09-2018 05:29 PM
Thunder1
Southwest
176
09-24-2015 05:33 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices