gripngrab

You're pretty dumb you know. This is basic common sense. Spirit management needs new hires and beyond to stay, especially year one new hires. Contract doesn't allow Spirit management to throw money at that SPECIFIC area. Thus, Spirit pilots hold all the cards on this one. It's called leverage. Give the company an LOA to raise first year pay only and address the issue, contract negotiations stall.
Sure, I would like new hires to be compensated properly. But Spirit management didn't see it that way in 2018. That's their cake and now they have to eat it. Unfortunately with all the new hires that still want to come here as well. The answer is that the new hires will stop coming here with more options now thus increasing the NK pilots leverage.

Justabusdriver1

Saying attrition is the only problem lacks foresight. People have had class dates for weeks. The real effect of regional contracts likely won’t become apparent for a couple months as class sizes and applications drop out. I’m definitely for an all around raise to the entire pilot group but imo the gap between first and second year doesn’t need to be so big. Do something to keep spirit attractive so people will still come in from regionals and address the pay gap between colleagues at other airlines. Doesn’t necessarily have to be higher but enough to make people think twice before readily jumping ship.

Bluedriver

Raising 1st year pay gives leverage to the pilots???

Then why does your management only want to raise 1st year pay???

Bluedriver

JB upgrades are just as short as NK, if not shorter.

Bluedriver

You are putting lots of BS words in my mouth.

I have NO desire to screw new hires or keep their pay low beyond the next LOA/CBA, but that next LOA/CBA needs to raise ALL NK/JB pilots to or above market rates.

Also never said it would harm NK to raise 1st year rates. You are making crap up because your argument is failing.

You say raising 1st year pay will give the leverage to the pilots, yet your management wants to raise 1st year pay and only 1st year pay. Do they somehow not know that doing so will give the leverage to the pilots? Or is EVERYONE else right and raising only 1st year pay will take the pressure off management to raise all years rates???

Let's see, on one side is you and your management, and on the other side is everyone else and your union...

Not hard.

ShortBusRider

I still don’t understand how anyone is getting screwed over. Did the company not tell you what they were paying new hires when you signed up? There were plenty of other places to go besides NK.

dualinput

They don’t need attrition to stop. Yes you are right that SOME attrition replaced w lower cost first year does help them.

What you’re missing is we are losing a ton of first year replaced w first year which costs money. That cost isn’t even really the problem. The problem is they have so much attrition they cannot fly the fleet at the utilization the ULCC model requires to make money.

They don’t need attrition to stop. They in fact do enjoy some level of attrition to lower costs. They just need attrition to slow enough so that they can staff the fleet to fly a profitable higher utilization. Until that happens spirit will not make money. How can they slow attrition enough to staff the fleet that grows everyday yet still enjoy some of the cost savings from light attrition? Raise only first year pay and stall out everyone else until a JCBA and let JetBlue handle it.

Training capacity is maxed and they cannot staff the fleet that keeps getting deliveries. SLOWING not ending attrition is their best case cost wise and their goal. That is why only raising first year is what they want. That’s why frontier did it and why they won’t see a contract for years.

You need to understand we all wanted first year to be much higher last time around and spirit was dead against it because they could always upguage training capacity if needed and lower experience requirements. Covid hit and they pushed back the deliveries. Now present day they have experience about as low as they can take it any training capacity is maxed out. The last 4 years low first year pay did not do much for the pilot group and hurt first year guys. Today that is completely different and the ONLY reason spirit is at the table. Your drum beating had some merit a couple years ago but today you’re missing the big picture completely. I suggest you get a clue.