First Week Openers
#181
I don't think he's saying to fix everyone's pay and leave 1st year crap...
But maybe you're saying fix 1st year and not give everyone else a raise? Otherwise I don't understand the argument.
Management needs to fix 1st year pay, the union says "yes, and also bring everyone else up to current market".
Not hard.
But maybe you're saying fix 1st year and not give everyone else a raise? Otherwise I don't understand the argument.
Management needs to fix 1st year pay, the union says "yes, and also bring everyone else up to current market".
Not hard.
Not hard.
#182
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
And I’m saying, sure - bring first year pay up ti $150 an hour with a 75 MMG and full insurance from day one of intro if they want to raise first year pay. It’ll make backfilling attrition four times as expensive as it is for management now. Make current levels of attrition unaffordable for management. Then they’ll HAVE TO negotiate higher pay. As it is right now, the very cheapness of backfilling with newbies is keeping the company from having to address attrition.
Not hard.
Not hard.
Imagine if our NC came on yesterday and said “we have entered into an agreement with management to give first year only, raises to $150 an hour for first year. You will take a pay cut for second year, so yeah, but hey, we made first year so expensive, they will now have to pay everyone more money”
Of course, because it’s clearly cheaper to pay everyone more money than first year $150/hr.
Thank you Jesus, thanks for keeping Cargo away from the grown up table.
#183
^^^^And this right here is why we should all pray to our God tonight, thankful Cargo isn’t let anywhere close to the decision desk for any of the negotiations.
Imagine if our NC came on yesterday and said “we have entered into an agreement with management to give first year only, raises to $150 an hour for first year. You will take a pay cut for second year, so yeah, but hey, we made first year so expensive, they will now have to pay everyone more money”
Of course, because it’s clearly cheaper to pay everyone more money than first year $150/hr.
Thank you Jesus, thanks for keeping Cargo away from the grown up table.
Imagine if our NC came on yesterday and said “we have entered into an agreement with management to give first year only, raises to $150 an hour for first year. You will take a pay cut for second year, so yeah, but hey, we made first year so expensive, they will now have to pay everyone more money”
Of course, because it’s clearly cheaper to pay everyone more money than first year $150/hr.
Thank you Jesus, thanks for keeping Cargo away from the grown up table.
Because you’ve been singing that same song for over four years and it ain’t worked yet.
But I do appreciate your piety. 😉
Last edited by Excargodog; 09-30-2022 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Religious recognition.
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,283
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 417
Looks a little skinny for a true airline pilot. Body by Sbarro.
#186
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Position: A320 captain
Posts: 91
But the take away from the zoom call really should not be that the company only wants to increase first year and training pay. Even management knows that would not fly. It was the first week guys. Our NC is negotiating from strength.
#187
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 94
And I’m saying, sure - bring first year pay up ti $150 an hour with a 75 MMG and full insurance from day one of intro if they want to raise first year pay. It’ll make backfilling attrition four times as expensive as it is for management now. Make current levels of attrition unaffordable for management. Then they’ll HAVE TO negotiate higher pay. As it is right now, the very cheapness of backfilling with newbies is keeping the company from having to address attrition.
Not hard.
Not hard.
#188
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
And I’m saying, sure - bring first year pay up ti $150 an hour with a 75 MMG and full insurance from day one of intro if they want to raise first year pay. It’ll make backfilling attrition four times as expensive as it is for management now. Make current levels of attrition unaffordable for management. Then they’ll HAVE TO negotiate higher pay. As it is right now, the very cheapness of backfilling with newbies is keeping the company from having to address attrition.
Not hard.
Not hard.
So would you agree to fix only 1st year pay and training pay and leave the rest of the rates alone?
Last edited by Bluedriver; 10-01-2022 at 06:47 AM.
#189
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Management wants to only fix 1st year pay. Which is what you say will fix the pilots problems. So you think management is setting their own trap and just don't know it?
#190
The people they are losing - junior CAs who will spend a long time on reserve and FOs are easily replaced as long as new hire classes remain full, replaced by FOs costing them about $50 K that first year and by upgrading FOs with less longevity than those CAs departing. It’s a net decrease in payroll for management.
And management gets to keep the unvested parts of the 401k of those departing. Management is coming out ahead on the deal.
Where is the ‘leverage’ in that?
Cinquo and a few others have been advocating this “strategy” for four plus years, and it hasn’t worked yet. It is the equivalent of bringing in cheap labor to replace the people quitting, negating the leverage of attrition. Why would management raise everyone’s wages to avoid doing that? What other airlines are successfully implementing this policy? Or have implemented this policy? Where has it ever worked?
How long will it have to not work before you’ll be convinced it isn’t going to work?
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