First Week Openers
09-27-2022, 07:09 AM
#141
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 551
As for what we can expect from management? It’s not really some secret: The absolute least amount of ground they have to concede to keep the metal moving. In the history of airline negotiations there has never been a management group who have come to the table with empathy and concern that pilots will feel validated and appreciated. Any gains they concede will be solely out of recognition of pilot market scarcity, and not one single dollar more.
Anything above that will require pilot unity, which is where his opinion and vote means the same as the noob he told to keep their mouth shut.
09-27-2022, 07:29 AM
#142
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 551
Once again, I’m pretty sure you’re missing the point. Nobody is talking about battle stars(which maybe you should have a bit more respect for the guys that walked the line), TRO’s and furloughs.
I believe what Cinco is referring to, is this management team (specifically Bendo) is historically known for games and bs of getting our hopes up. Don’t for a second believe Bendo is going to hand out a TA without getting “his”. He’s ruthless and his past speaks for itself.
Hopefully, I’m proven wrong. Like you said, our votes are equal no matter how long you’ve been here. I just hope we have something to vote on sooner rather than later.
I believe what Cinco is referring to, is this management team (specifically Bendo) is historically known for games and bs of getting our hopes up. Don’t for a second believe Bendo is going to hand out a TA without getting “his”. He’s ruthless and his past speaks for itself.
Hopefully, I’m proven wrong. Like you said, our votes are equal no matter how long you’ve been here. I just hope we have something to vote on sooner rather than later.
Now it’s simply a numbers game. They know a pay raise is inevitable, but each day it’s put off is found money as payroll is the most controllable expense. The other side of that scale is gambling on attrition, combined with examples of other airlines pay raises. They make decisions based on balance sheets and projections, not based on how they think pilots will feel vs their peers.
You don’t have to be a grizzled Spirit veteran to understand this is a zero sum game.
09-27-2022, 07:42 AM
#143
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Unless he was on the negotiating committee (he wasn’t) then he has no more “experience with the management team” than anyone else.
As for what we can expect from management? It’s not really some secret: The absolute least amount of ground they have to concede to keep the metal moving. In the history of airline negotiations there has never been a management group who have come to the table with empathy and concern that pilots will feel validated and appreciated. Any gains they concede will be solely out of recognition of pilot market scarcity, and not one single dollar more.
Anything above that will require pilot unity, which is where his opinion and vote means the same as the noob he told to keep their mouth shut.
As for what we can expect from management? It’s not really some secret: The absolute least amount of ground they have to concede to keep the metal moving. In the history of airline negotiations there has never been a management group who have come to the table with empathy and concern that pilots will feel validated and appreciated. Any gains they concede will be solely out of recognition of pilot market scarcity, and not one single dollar more.
Anything above that will require pilot unity, which is where his opinion and vote means the same as the noob he told to keep their mouth shut.
You are like the more intelligent version of our Bandwagon/Softpayman. That's not a compliment.
09-27-2022, 08:17 AM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: baller, shot caller
Posts: 1,025
09-27-2022, 08:21 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 465
09-27-2022, 08:48 AM
#149
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 551
It's pretty clear to those with more experience the other guy was exhibiting undue optimism and naivete. He wasn't demonstrating the realities you present, and they were pointing that out. Nothing about votes...
You are like the more intelligent version of our Bandwagon/Softpayman. That's not a compliment.
You are like the more intelligent version of our Bandwagon/Softpayman. That's not a compliment.
09-27-2022, 10:13 AM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 723
Retro always. With every new contract signed. With every airline.
Period.
And yet when I mention it to CAs and FOs I'm usually met with "What's retro pay mean?"
And if you think we're going to get a contract accomplished in early openers... well... I hope you're right, but I highly doubt it. I expect nothing less than the last contract series of events to play out long term, only to get thrown in the trash once the merger is complete. I hope I'm wrong.
Listen to, or read in your email, the latest Podcast talking about contract 2018. (IDK if you were here or not, but it's the one I was here for.) That's the sugarcoated version. It was way worse. And then read about Contract 9000, which I was not here for, and ask someone who was.
Period.
And yet when I mention it to CAs and FOs I'm usually met with "What's retro pay mean?"
And if you think we're going to get a contract accomplished in early openers... well... I hope you're right, but I highly doubt it. I expect nothing less than the last contract series of events to play out long term, only to get thrown in the trash once the merger is complete. I hope I'm wrong.
Listen to, or read in your email, the latest Podcast talking about contract 2018. (IDK if you were here or not, but it's the one I was here for.) That's the sugarcoated version. It was way worse. And then read about Contract 9000, which I was not here for, and ask someone who was.
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