F9 or NK
09-11-2021, 01:40 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
F9 or NK
4 days off applies to reserves as well. 6 on 4 off usually but varies with bidding preference.
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09-11-2021, 04:58 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,666
Reviewing the contract comparison we just got at spirit.
A few more differences are rigs in favor of Spirit
Min days off in favor of Spirit
Frontier guarantee is 75 vs 72 Spirit
Spirit has 3 hour reserve call vs 2 Frontier for short call
14 vs 12 for long call
Reserve automatic 6 hour early release Spirit, Frontier is at “company discretion” for any early release
DH pay favor of Spirit
A few more differences are rigs in favor of Spirit
Min days off in favor of Spirit
Frontier guarantee is 75 vs 72 Spirit
Spirit has 3 hour reserve call vs 2 Frontier for short call
14 vs 12 for long call
Reserve automatic 6 hour early release Spirit, Frontier is at “company discretion” for any early release
DH pay favor of Spirit
09-11-2021, 06:45 AM
#53
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
Odd, but some of your F9 info may be a little inaccurate or out of date.
You’ve got us on duty rig and the 13th day off for long months.
-So this was correct on what I said
As far as 4 in a row goes, I’m assuming your junior lineholders have to waive that pretty consistently in order to get enough credit on their schedules to get a line?
-Point is, you are guaranteed 4. What pilots choose to waive to is not the point.
I don’t think the reserve callout is an apples to apples comparison but yours does sound a little more flexible on paper. In practice I don’t there’s much of a difference. Long calls at F9 are auto-released at 10am on their last day but short call have to call to get released early.
-Short call is auto released here 6 early, F9 has to call. This is just what I said. It honestly seems very much apples to apples, we are talking specifically about SCR release times. Just like NK long call being a 14 hour call hour which is better than F9. Again, just stating the numbers right off the contract comparison we got this week.
DH pay is 100% unless forced into a middle seat then it’s 150%.
-Was going by the contract comparison which shows 50% pay "scheduled DH" and 100% pay for "unscheduled" DH. If you can please paste the contract provision you have that you stated above, ill be happy to forward this to our NC so they have accurate info
Vacation pays 5 hours per day with some flexibility on moving credit between weeks of vacation.
-We have the ability to choose the credit per day with the standard ability to slide days either way, and bookend protected days, etc. I dont think I mentioned anything about vacation
The 125% pay over 82 hours seems to be very popular at F9 as well.
-We have 200% XY, you guys have 125% over 82. Never said otherwise. I am curious to how much less XY there would be if DOT was gobbled up to get people over the 82 if we had that here
You’ve definitely got us on LTD although we had a slight improvement to that recently but still not industry standard.
YUP
You’ve got us on duty rig and the 13th day off for long months.
-So this was correct on what I said
As far as 4 in a row goes, I’m assuming your junior lineholders have to waive that pretty consistently in order to get enough credit on their schedules to get a line?
-Point is, you are guaranteed 4. What pilots choose to waive to is not the point.
I don’t think the reserve callout is an apples to apples comparison but yours does sound a little more flexible on paper. In practice I don’t there’s much of a difference. Long calls at F9 are auto-released at 10am on their last day but short call have to call to get released early.
-Short call is auto released here 6 early, F9 has to call. This is just what I said. It honestly seems very much apples to apples, we are talking specifically about SCR release times. Just like NK long call being a 14 hour call hour which is better than F9. Again, just stating the numbers right off the contract comparison we got this week.
DH pay is 100% unless forced into a middle seat then it’s 150%.
-Was going by the contract comparison which shows 50% pay "scheduled DH" and 100% pay for "unscheduled" DH. If you can please paste the contract provision you have that you stated above, ill be happy to forward this to our NC so they have accurate info
Vacation pays 5 hours per day with some flexibility on moving credit between weeks of vacation.
-We have the ability to choose the credit per day with the standard ability to slide days either way, and bookend protected days, etc. I dont think I mentioned anything about vacation
The 125% pay over 82 hours seems to be very popular at F9 as well.
-We have 200% XY, you guys have 125% over 82. Never said otherwise. I am curious to how much less XY there would be if DOT was gobbled up to get people over the 82 if we had that here
You’ve definitely got us on LTD although we had a slight improvement to that recently but still not industry standard.
YUP
Bottom line, not trying to make this 1 better than the other, not at all. We both have some ways to improve. But I disagree with your first statement that what I said was old or inaccurate. The only discrepancy I see if the DH, which I got off the comparison. So please let me know the contract wording so we have that info. Our NC needs to have the correct info and know we aren't going in "better than F9" on DH if you guys are getting the above mentioned. Im wanting to see improvements in DH for us. No reason why BFS aren't guaranteed for flights over 3 hours and exit rows are the standard for any DH under 3 hours.
Again, not trying to make it a measuring contest, but I just dont agree with your first statement. Peace and Love
09-11-2021, 07:45 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,666
Bottom line, not trying to make this 1 better than the other, not at all. We both have some ways to improve. But I disagree with your first statement that what I said was old or inaccurate. The only discrepancy I see if the DH, which I got off the comparison. So please let me know the contract wording so we have that info. Our NC needs to have the correct info and know we aren't going in "better than F9" on DH if you guys are getting the above mentioned. Im wanting to see improvements in DH for us. No reason why BFS aren't guaranteed for flights over 3 hours and exit rows are the standard for any DH under 3 hours.
Again, not trying to make it a measuring contest, but I just dont agree with your first statement. Peace and Love
Again, not trying to make it a measuring contest, but I just dont agree with your first statement. Peace and Love
09-11-2021, 08:22 AM
#55
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
Sure, sure. You were highlighting differences, so I highlighted a couple more and clarified a couple. I’m pretty sure your NC can get whatever info they need from their contacts. Your DH info was out of date. I’m assuming you didn’t post the whole contract comparison so there’s a possibility that more is out of date or inaccurate. So my statement stands: some of your info is out of date. Hopefully DH was it, but contracts are complex documents and amended frequently with LOAs.
You dont need to be some fan boy over this, this isnt about sticking up for your contract. Hell, you guys pretty much copied and pasted our contract for yours, down to the longevity dates.
09-11-2021, 08:23 AM
#56
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,203
Sure, sure. You were highlighting differences, so I highlighted a couple more and clarified a couple. I’m pretty sure your NC can get whatever info they need from their contacts. Your DH info was out of date. I’m assuming you didn’t post the whole contract comparison so there’s a possibility that more is out of date or inaccurate. So my statement stands: some of your info is out of date. Hopefully DH was it, but contracts are complex documents and amended frequently with LOAs.
09-11-2021, 08:32 AM
#57
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
All the more reason that comparisons like this are helpful since a lot of the contracts and LOAs are behind firewalls - especially for privately held companies. The more we know about the favorable (and unfavorable) parts of each other’s contracts the more educated can be our own negotiating (and voting) decisions - never a bad thing that.
09-11-2021, 08:34 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
F9 or NK
You kinda sound like the fan boy. No need to get all hot and bothered.
09-11-2021, 09:07 AM
#59
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
