Attrition
02-26-2022, 08:15 AM
#982
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,771
Absolutely. This is not some scheme that ALPA put together to end run negotiations, this is something that I have no doubt the two managements spent months or years working on behind the scenes and legitimately believe will be a money-maker for the combined companies. They initiated it, they want it, they believe in it. And it actually makes sense, there are economies of scale that will be profitable, it helps to solve IROPS problems, and will expand our customer base and market share two ways; both attracting pax who would have otherwise either not been traveling at all or using alternate means than flying, and peeling off value minded pax from the Big Four.
In this environment, they weren’t stupid enough to think the pilots unions weren’t going to make financial gains with the next CBA anyway, this just puts pressure on them to not use the typical drag-it-out-as-long-as-we-can-at-the-old-rates tactics that they tend to use. Is it necessarily a win for the pilot group(s)? Nope, but like the current pilot shortage, it gives the unions additional leverage for both monetary and QOL improvements.
I simply don’t understand the ‘woe is us” coming from some posters over this and I have to seriously question if a few of them aren’t shills for management intentionally trying to lower expectations. This ought to be about the easiest damn SLI in history. Right now at NK a newbie can get their base of preference pretty much out of training. That pretty much means the bottom half of the seniority list has little if anything to worry about. I suppose at the very top of the list there might be conflict, but I seriously doubt that someone who has been living in ACY for the last quarter century is going to find some urgent need to displace someone who has been living for the last quarter century in Denver.
And right now while Sprontier is quickly expanding a lot of what might have been profits is going to be going into growth, an excellent time to hit the company for profit sharing which - because the company won’t be realizing much profit - won’t cost them all that much but will lock in pilot gains when the expansion is complete. The same thing for wage gains. If they claim the merger is going to be too costly to allow much increase we simply strongly backload gains in pay scales into DOS+1 or 2 where the management is telling shareholders and the SEC alike that those fruits of consolidation are waiting.
No gripes against those that want to go elsewhere (especially if you are senior to me). Good luck and I hope it works out for you. Just don’t badmouth the merger or the chances of obtaining a better contract here as your rationale for doing it, because the opportunities here have frankly never looked better.
This is a time of opportunity for the pilot group. We OUGHT to have high expectations. It’s on us if we settle for less.
In this environment, they weren’t stupid enough to think the pilots unions weren’t going to make financial gains with the next CBA anyway, this just puts pressure on them to not use the typical drag-it-out-as-long-as-we-can-at-the-old-rates tactics that they tend to use. Is it necessarily a win for the pilot group(s)? Nope, but like the current pilot shortage, it gives the unions additional leverage for both monetary and QOL improvements.
I simply don’t understand the ‘woe is us” coming from some posters over this and I have to seriously question if a few of them aren’t shills for management intentionally trying to lower expectations. This ought to be about the easiest damn SLI in history. Right now at NK a newbie can get their base of preference pretty much out of training. That pretty much means the bottom half of the seniority list has little if anything to worry about. I suppose at the very top of the list there might be conflict, but I seriously doubt that someone who has been living in ACY for the last quarter century is going to find some urgent need to displace someone who has been living for the last quarter century in Denver.
And right now while Sprontier is quickly expanding a lot of what might have been profits is going to be going into growth, an excellent time to hit the company for profit sharing which - because the company won’t be realizing much profit - won’t cost them all that much but will lock in pilot gains when the expansion is complete. The same thing for wage gains. If they claim the merger is going to be too costly to allow much increase we simply strongly backload gains in pay scales into DOS+1 or 2 where the management is telling shareholders and the SEC alike that those fruits of consolidation are waiting.
No gripes against those that want to go elsewhere (especially if you are senior to me). Good luck and I hope it works out for you. Just don’t badmouth the merger or the chances of obtaining a better contract here as your rationale for doing it, because the opportunities here have frankly never looked better.
This is a time of opportunity for the pilot group. We OUGHT to have high expectations. It’s on us if we settle for less.
02-26-2022, 09:18 AM
#983
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 1,035
Absolutely. This is not some scheme that ALPA put together to end run negotiations, this is something that I have no doubt the two managements spent months or years working on behind the scenes and legitimately believe will be a money-maker for the combined companies. They initiated it, they want it, they believe in it. And it actually makes sense, there are economies of scale that will be profitable, it helps to solve IROPS problems, and will expand our customer base and market share two ways; both attracting pax who would have otherwise either not been traveling at all or using alternate means than flying, and peeling off value minded pax from the Big Four.
In this environment, they weren’t stupid enough to think the pilots unions weren’t going to make financial gains with the next CBA anyway, this just puts pressure on them to not use the typical drag-it-out-as-long-as-we-can-at-the-old-rates tactics that they tend to use. Is it necessarily a win for the pilot group(s)? Nope, but like the current pilot shortage, it gives the unions additional leverage for both monetary and QOL improvements.
I simply don’t understand the ‘woe is us” coming from some posters over this and I have to seriously question if a few of them aren’t shills for management intentionally trying to lower expectations. This ought to be about the easiest damn SLI in history. Right now at NK a newbie can get their base of preference pretty much out of training. That pretty much means the bottom half of the seniority list has little if anything to worry about. I suppose at the very top of the list there might be conflict, but I seriously doubt that someone who has been living in ACY for the last quarter century is going to find some urgent need to displace someone who has been living for the last quarter century in Denver.
And right now while Sprontier is quickly expanding a lot of what might have been profits is going to be going into growth, an excellent time to hit the company for profit sharing which - because the company won’t be realizing much profit - won’t cost them all that much but will lock in pilot gains when the expansion is complete. The same thing for wage gains. If they claim the merger is going to be too costly to allow much increase we simply strongly backload gains in pay scales into DOS+1 or 2 where the management is telling shareholders and the SEC alike that those fruits of consolidation are waiting.
No gripes against those that want to go elsewhere (especially if you are senior to me). Good luck and I hope it works out for you. Just don’t badmouth the merger or the chances of obtaining a better contract here as your rationale for doing it, because the opportunities here have frankly never looked better.
This is a time of opportunity for the pilot group. We OUGHT to have high expectations. It’s on us if we settle for less.
In this environment, they weren’t stupid enough to think the pilots unions weren’t going to make financial gains with the next CBA anyway, this just puts pressure on them to not use the typical drag-it-out-as-long-as-we-can-at-the-old-rates tactics that they tend to use. Is it necessarily a win for the pilot group(s)? Nope, but like the current pilot shortage, it gives the unions additional leverage for both monetary and QOL improvements.
I simply don’t understand the ‘woe is us” coming from some posters over this and I have to seriously question if a few of them aren’t shills for management intentionally trying to lower expectations. This ought to be about the easiest damn SLI in history. Right now at NK a newbie can get their base of preference pretty much out of training. That pretty much means the bottom half of the seniority list has little if anything to worry about. I suppose at the very top of the list there might be conflict, but I seriously doubt that someone who has been living in ACY for the last quarter century is going to find some urgent need to displace someone who has been living for the last quarter century in Denver.
And right now while Sprontier is quickly expanding a lot of what might have been profits is going to be going into growth, an excellent time to hit the company for profit sharing which - because the company won’t be realizing much profit - won’t cost them all that much but will lock in pilot gains when the expansion is complete. The same thing for wage gains. If they claim the merger is going to be too costly to allow much increase we simply strongly backload gains in pay scales into DOS+1 or 2 where the management is telling shareholders and the SEC alike that those fruits of consolidation are waiting.
No gripes against those that want to go elsewhere (especially if you are senior to me). Good luck and I hope it works out for you. Just don’t badmouth the merger or the chances of obtaining a better contract here as your rationale for doing it, because the opportunities here have frankly never looked better.
This is a time of opportunity for the pilot group. We OUGHT to have high expectations. It’s on us if we settle for less.
02-26-2022, 09:19 AM
#984
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 1,035
Don’t bite your tongue! If these guys live in an echo chamber they spread that poison like a virus.
02-26-2022, 10:54 AM
#985
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,908
02-26-2022, 10:55 AM
#986
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,096
Be more than happy to listen to the PERSONAL opinions of others. Should we be giving out our bottom line figures for what would earn a yes vote? Of course not, but general discussion of goodies we might want considered by the negotiators seem harmless enough. I’d personally rather see people’s expectations RAISED than see these shills trying to lower them. Nobody is likely to get everything they ask for in a negotiation but you damn sure aren’t going to get anything you DON’T ask for. Well, not anything good anyhow.
02-26-2022, 11:26 AM
#987
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 1,035
Be more than happy to listen to the PERSONAL opinions of others. Should we be giving out our bottom line figures for what would earn a yes vote? Of course not, but general discussion of goodies we might want considered by the negotiators seem harmless enough. I’d personally rather see people’s expectations RAISED than see these shills trying to lower them. Nobody is likely to get everything they ask for in a negotiation but you damn sure aren’t going to get anything you DON’T ask for. Well, not anything good anyhow.
02-26-2022, 12:05 PM
#988
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,096
02-27-2022, 06:38 AM
#989
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 63
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