CincoDeMayo

Well if he isn’t smart enough to understand we don’t, and that Spirit ALPA knows we don’t , then he is beyond help.

Because come on, if he trusts management at what they say, he is a moron.

Excargodog

Indeed. We constantly get reminded here to not negotiate online. Do you really think the two CEIs on a public forum are going to preemptively concede anything?

what they stated was that there would be huge cost savings in the synergy of the two companies. If they want those synergies, they will need a JCBA. If they want a JCBA IN THIS ENVIRONMENT they are going to have to up the ante in pilot pay. It’s as simple as that.

sioux8ships

Yeah, we’ve got some serious cheerleaders here. Oblivious to the world. Had one on the hotel van in mco yesterday. He’s saying- the company will pay us, they have to! Ugh!! Same guy that tries to buy ice..

sioux8ships

Maybe.. maybe they lower the 1500 rule, maybe they raise retirement to 67. These are all things that play into managements hand.

Excargodog

Woell, the two CEOs can’t do either of those things.

sioux8ships

True, but don’t think the airlines haven’t already lobbied to get them passed.

IamEssential

It is NOW, the environment is good NOW. Give it a year and who knows, probably won't be this good. All they need to do is drag their feet and considering it is going to be at least a year before anything significant is going to happen with this merger, including a new JCBA, I wouldn't hold my breath for that big pay raise.

emersonbiguns

We have no idea about a year from now. Could be worse/better/same.

The nice (or not so bad) thing is, we both have tolerable contracts that will allow us to hold out longer than previous. I don't think an evil-genius plan to build a super ULCC is a "long game" concept. The longer the execution takes, the more time the competition has to end run the plan.

Excargodog

Absolutely. This is not some scheme that ALPA put together to end run negotiations, this is something that I have no doubt the two managements spent months or years working on behind the scenes and legitimately believe will be a money-maker for the combined companies. They initiated it, they want it, they believe in it. And it actually makes sense, there are economies of scale that will be profitable, it helps to solve IROPS problems, and will expand our customer base and market share two ways; both attracting pax who would have otherwise either not been traveling at all or using alternate means than flying, and peeling off value minded pax from the Big Four.

In this environment, they weren’t stupid enough to think the pilots unions weren’t going to make financial gains with the next CBA anyway, this just puts pressure on them to not use the typical drag-it-out-as-long-as-we-can-at-the-old-rates tactics that they tend to use. Is it necessarily a win for the pilot group(s)? Nope, but like the current pilot shortage, it gives the unions additional leverage for both monetary and QOL improvements.

I simply don’t understand the ‘woe is us” coming from some posters over this and I have to seriously question if a few of them aren’t shills for management intentionally trying to lower expectations. This ought to be about the easiest damn SLI in history. Right now at NK a newbie can get their base of preference pretty much out of training. That pretty much means the bottom half of the seniority list has little if anything to worry about. I suppose at the very top of the list there might be conflict, but I seriously doubt that someone who has been living in ACY for the last quarter century is going to find some urgent need to displace someone who has been living for the last quarter century in Denver.

And right now while Sprontier is quickly expanding a lot of what might have been profits is going to be going into growth, an excellent time to hit the company for profit sharing which - because the company won’t be realizing much profit - won’t cost them all that much but will lock in pilot gains when the expansion is complete. The same thing for wage gains. If they claim the merger is going to be too costly to allow much increase we simply strongly backload gains in pay scales into DOS+1 or 2 where the management is telling shareholders and the SEC alike that those fruits of consolidation are waiting.

No gripes against those that want to go elsewhere (especially if you are senior to me). Good luck and I hope it works out for you. Just don’t badmouth the merger or the chances of obtaining a better contract here as your rationale for doing it, because the opportunities here have frankly never looked better.

This is a time of opportunity for the pilot group. We OUGHT to have high expectations. It’s on us if we settle for less.

GrumpyCaptain

Truth!

Not sure where those “we will need to give up this or that” comes from. This isn’t a merger in bankruptcy it’s a merger to take over the world.