VIRotate

Could be a double edged sword though. Parking airplanes could increase attrition even more. I'm willing to stick it out but if we start parking planes, I'm probably going to bounce.

Lower upgrades + unknown merger future + substandard pay + parking planes. If management is going to screw around and draw out contract negotiations, I'm not sure there will be an airline left to staff. Just my two cents. I want this place to succeed but the attrition rate worries me.

CincoDeMayo

You really think Management will park planes over raises for pilots? This is a very far fetched idea, not going to happen.

“Well we can raise prices $2 a ticket to account for Spirit pilot raises or we park planes, make $0 revenue on the parked plane, and absorb the high costs associated with a parked plane that’s under finance”

“Yes, let’s park the planes”

🙄

Mtnbikemike

I don’t think the 319’s are financed. I think NK owns them. That’s why those were parked at the height of the pandemic.
If they did park planes, it won’t be because they want to, it will be the result of not negotiating an industry standard contract. Which in my humble opinion, Franke would rather do that than pay pilots.

FNGFO

There is no financing on the 319s. And yes, I can see this management group pulling that lever before admitting that they have to pay the pilots.

TOGALOCK

Yes. That must be why, at the end of 2018 when Frontier was beginning to have recruiting problems, Frankie allowed BB to agree to a pilot TA that had the largest single contract gains in all of ALPA history. Six months after that he placed the largest single order for new aircraft in Airbus’ history with a large chunk of those airframes slated for Frontier. Two years after that he placed another massive aircraft order that nearly rivaled the first. Again, with a large portion of those airframes planned for Frontier. Then a few months later he went on to buy another airline.

Franke is frugal and he won’t spend a cent more than he needs to, but he always ponies up when he has to. He just waits until he has no other choice. When gates get too expensive at LAX or ORD he can continue to fill planes and the airline will keep moving if he just starts operating out of ONT and MDW. The airline can’t keep moving and making money without pilots. That’s a simple fact.

Also don’t forget that Frontier is a public company now. As is Spirit and as will be the new merged company. Franke is no longer a one man band like his earlier years of Frontier. He can’t just snap his fingers and thy will be done. If he’s going to make a decision that is going to severely damper revenue and profit possibilities he’s going to have to convince an entire board of directors of that and will likely leave a lot of shareholders ****ed.

Take a breath people. The sun will continue to rise in the East just as it always has.

mavsfflife

Industry standard pay rates isn’t going to fix this thing imo. Lack of retirements, progression, upgrade times, widebody options, constantly dealing with a company unwilling to pay anybody on the front lines enough to stick around for more than 6 months, and the fact that a lot of people want to work for a legacy carrier are all equally important factors I’d imagine.

Who cares if you made the biggest contract gains in alpa history? I’m so sick of hearing that. We did that because captains were making less than legacy fos at the time and we still ended up at the bottom. We gave up a lot of for those too.

TOGALOCK

You’re making the assumption that we will settle for “industry standard” (a phrase nobody is able to define so “I’m getting so sick of hearing it”). We will get what we fight for and vote in.

Why does my point about the largest gains in ALPA history matter? Because Franke allowed it to happen instead of closing the doors. That’s fact. Not emotion. People at F9 were screaming during the last negotiations that Franke would rather just shut down the airline than give us any kind of raise (emotion). Franke actually ponied up with something sizable when he had no other choices (fact). Now, here we are again and people not even at F9 are crying that Franke is just going to shrink us or shut us down, despite sizable aircraft orders and purchasing another airline (emotion). Let’s see what the facts will be.

Also, I have no doubt aircraft will be parked. Franke has never been a fan of 319s and finds better efficiency in the 320s and 321s. Spirit also has far more old “fuel guzzling” ceos than Frontier. The new entity can replace older aircraft with the newer and more fuel efficient incoming neos and reduce some of our staffing needs. That doesn’t mean the sky is falling. That’s just smart business. When they start parking 321neos then we’ll talk.

Also, F9 just started paying for new hire hotels. A small act I know, but many of our resident expert F9 Holiday Inn Express CEOs said Franke was too cheap to ever do it (again, emotion). Well, he ended up doing it (fact). Are we beginning to see the trend that most factual reality is the opposite of what’s predicted by APC emotion?

FNGFO

Yeah, uh, they start parking those gas guzzling 320 CEOs and they’ll only further aggravate the attrition, stagnation and recruiting issues. In addition to the 319s you’re talking about another 50 or so 320s. Or parking 85 planes in total with the best case scenario of a 1:1 exchange for Neo deliveries.

There are more than an a few folks who are locked in here with the golden handcuffs and or short remaining careers. There are also a lot who aren’t. I guess the plan amidst this $6.6B deal could be to run off half of the pilot group, get rid of the gas guzzlers, tread water or shrink the fleet and hope training costs aren’t too high to set the revolving door in motion for FOs and younger junior CAs. Seems like a poor way to make money and get a return on the investment.

mavsfflife

I can’t speak for Frontier, but we did have less than 100 people show up at the height of negotiations to a picket in sunny 80 degree weather. What we fought for and voted in was a contract that has left us looking up at everybody else. Just wait until you see the lack of engagement and apathy that our biggest bases show. They will absolutely settle for industry standard, there’s that term again for you.

FlyGuy2002

seems like a poor way to make money ? Exactly . That’s why it’s not going to Unfold that way. And the previous poster is very correct. Public company. He maybe chairmen of the board (at ripe old age of mid 80s) but the board gets votes. And board I’m guessing they see a power house low cost carrier in the making. If you wanna leave then leave. But the sky isn’t falling. And last I checked southwest has slow upgrades and no wide bodies. They stay and recruit successfuly because it’s a good job that pays fat. Make both of those true here, no reason to think this can’t be a career airline either . It is for me .