SlimBob

I don't think he can see why we think this is a joke.

Lincoln Osiris

Incoming butt hurt ALPA reps looking out for their buddies instead of the pilot group.

69fastback

Point to which part of the quoted post of yours is being helpful. Enjoy being blissfully ignorant. Hope it works out for you. Good day sir.

Tornado875

I'm pretty terrified that you are the only person in this thread displeased with the fact that you all are underpaid and everyone else is dumping on you for having the audacity to being upset by it. It scares me that the "company can't afford more" mindset I am seeing here might be voting with me in a JCBA.
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SoFloFlyer

The landscape has shifted since the first survey calls went out. Hindsight being 20/20, I think it worked out for us in the end. We secured a new CBA that other otherwise might’ve not come given the series of unfortunate events like the sale of the 319s and the P&W Engine issues.

He would rather be at 2018 rates today just to “stick it to the man.”

Should we have gotten payed more? Yes. Did it end up working out in the end? Given everything that transpired, yes.

Lakeaffect

Holding to conflicting thoughts in your head at the same time is difficult for a lot people :

“I’m disappointed that we voted in a subpar contract, I voted no” AND “In hindsight the contract passing was below our peers, but most likely better than what we would’ve got had it failed.”

The second sentence in these people’s mind gets adjusted to align with the first.
Something along the lines of : “this pilot group is weak” , “we are the laughing stock of the industry now”, “the union is to blame”. “I’d rather take nothing and be strong than vote yes and be the laughed at.” Lincoln’s got some good examples.

Tornado875

Terrible advice. This is the mindset I am terrified of. Go spend 15 minutes reading through SWA forums. Those pilots are ready to burn their company to the ground to get an industry leading contract. (And I hope they do for the sake of snap up), they are so unified right now it brings a tear to my eye.

And then I visit this side of the forum with my possible soon to be comrades in arms and I have to read company apologists talking about how making the same wages as Avelo is remotely acceptable and how the company is having a hard time. Shoot at B6 even with our issues and them offering VILs our union still just scored us a sweet LOA two months ago. The Spirits group attitude of "good enough" makes me scared if the acquisition is approved.
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SoFloFlyer

SWA is also profitable so there’s that. We haven’t been profitable in years. Getting offered a raise while losing money doesn’t happen in most industries so it’s definitely a blessing. The JCBA is a whole other animal and not an apples to apples comparison to our approach to the previous TA that was just voted in.

The pay will be there, what we have to worry about is everything else going forward.

P.S. Looking at the Avelo rates, we are not pid the same lol They touch our rates a few times, but we are overall better compensated. Let’s not be dramatic

Tornado875

I would just love to see you all get mad instead of carrying water for the company. It's like someone else said, I don't set market rate for pilots, the market does. If fuel goes up in price the company doesn't get to get it at a discount just because they can't figure out how to turn a profit. Market rate is market rate.

Well I hope you're right about the JCBA because I am concerned. And I am sorry if I was off base about Avelo, I thought they topped out right around 300k anymore just a few bucks give or take below y'all. Sorry if I was mistaken, tbh I don't know much about Avelo.

RemoveB4flght

Profitability doesn't determine pilot compensation. We aren't asking for a bonus. It's a cost of doing business, not a favor or reward. In any business payroll is (sometimes the only) expense that management has the most direct control over, which is why they push back so hard in negotiations.

We don't get merit based raises in this industry, but we have the same expectations to operate an aircraft in a safe, legal, and efficient manner as any other airline. We are expected to maintain our pilot license through training and checking, and our medical license. There is also not an oversupply of experienced and qualified pilots on the market.

It's funny to me that the same guys who will say we cannot expect much more from Spirit because we "aren't profitable" will in the same breath say the JCBA will be different after B6 takes on billions of dollars in debt to buy us, plus the costs of converting the fleets and training the employees, reworking the network, billions more in order book, widebodies, etc. Management gets paid seven figure salaries to strategize how to do all that, pay the bills/loans, grow the company and make profits all while the costs of business change constantly in an ever evolving market/economy.

While the "burn it down" and "grow some balls" tropes seem polarizing and acting against our own self interests, management will happily utilize the reduced costs of sub-industry pay to even out their balance sheets and quickly forget about returning the favor once back in the black.