Attrition
10-12-2023, 08:53 AM
#3351
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: baller, shot caller
Posts: 1,011
But it's all in the past and we would be idiots if we don't learn from our mistakes moving forward.
10-16-2023, 11:49 PM
#3355
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Posts: 1
Attrition
Hello Folks,
the below message is the 7th one in my entire career politics and management always started like this in the past….i just can say leave the boat as soon as you can. 385 Million is a neck breaker. Everyone who thinking to stay with a CJO in his hand even it is a step back should consider this before stay!
Read the Message from ALPA and build your own scenario. Just an advise from a several times furlough pilot this is just the beginning!
Fellow Spirit ALPA Pilots,
As we previously communicated, the pilots at Alaska and JetBlue recently secured mid-contract pay improvements. At the direction of the MEC, the MEC officers and Negotiating Committee met with Spirit management representatives on Monday, Oct. 9 to address these developments and other potential threats to your future and to Spirit Airlines.
Compensation Gap to the Industry
The growing compensation gap between Spirit pilots and the rest of the industry poses a serious risk to our ability to attract and retain pilots and staff the airline. Despite delivering that message to management, they had a different assessment of the risk and specifically cited their financial concerns in rejecting consideration of a mid-cycle compensation adjustment to our current agreement.
Spirit Financial Performance
During the contract roadshows in December of last year, the consensus among analysts for Spirit’s full-year 2023 earnings estimate was an adjusted pre-tax profit of $61M. By contrast, the current estimate for full-year 2023 is an adjusted pre-tax loss of $325M, a difference of $386M that will negatively impact Spirit’s cash position. Analysts are mixed on Spirit’s return to profitability with some forecasting continuing losses in 2024.
Impact of Pratt & Whitney Engine Issue
It is becoming increasingly clear that the Pratt & Whitney engine issue is a threat to the job security of Spirit pilots and the airline as a whole. Spirit has already grounded a number of aircraft due to an Airworthiness Directive. The number of airplanes estimated to be grounded each month through 2025 is expected to be significant and could reduce planned pilot staffing throughout the period. The exact number of affected aircraft (engines) is unknown at this time, but Spirit is the carrier with the greatest exposure to this issue. We have called upon Spirit management to communicate further details about this problem and the effect it is having and will have on the operation and the business.
In a recent message from Spirit Flight Operations, the Company announced reduced pilot hiring and upgrades. The update from Greg Christopher, vice president —Flight Operations & OCC, last week did not indicate how long these reduced numbers will remain in place or how significantly the Pratt & Whitney engine issue will impact the operation over the next 24 months. We will continue to demand clarity from management and provide any information that becomes available.
The highest priority of this MEC is to secure the long-term well-being and prosperity of all Spirit pilots, and we will continue to advocate for any and all measures to safeguard our careers.
In Unity,
SPA MEC
the below message is the 7th one in my entire career politics and management always started like this in the past….i just can say leave the boat as soon as you can. 385 Million is a neck breaker. Everyone who thinking to stay with a CJO in his hand even it is a step back should consider this before stay!
Read the Message from ALPA and build your own scenario. Just an advise from a several times furlough pilot this is just the beginning!
Fellow Spirit ALPA Pilots,
As we previously communicated, the pilots at Alaska and JetBlue recently secured mid-contract pay improvements. At the direction of the MEC, the MEC officers and Negotiating Committee met with Spirit management representatives on Monday, Oct. 9 to address these developments and other potential threats to your future and to Spirit Airlines.
Compensation Gap to the Industry
The growing compensation gap between Spirit pilots and the rest of the industry poses a serious risk to our ability to attract and retain pilots and staff the airline. Despite delivering that message to management, they had a different assessment of the risk and specifically cited their financial concerns in rejecting consideration of a mid-cycle compensation adjustment to our current agreement.
Spirit Financial Performance
During the contract roadshows in December of last year, the consensus among analysts for Spirit’s full-year 2023 earnings estimate was an adjusted pre-tax profit of $61M. By contrast, the current estimate for full-year 2023 is an adjusted pre-tax loss of $325M, a difference of $386M that will negatively impact Spirit’s cash position. Analysts are mixed on Spirit’s return to profitability with some forecasting continuing losses in 2024.
Impact of Pratt & Whitney Engine Issue
It is becoming increasingly clear that the Pratt & Whitney engine issue is a threat to the job security of Spirit pilots and the airline as a whole. Spirit has already grounded a number of aircraft due to an Airworthiness Directive. The number of airplanes estimated to be grounded each month through 2025 is expected to be significant and could reduce planned pilot staffing throughout the period. The exact number of affected aircraft (engines) is unknown at this time, but Spirit is the carrier with the greatest exposure to this issue. We have called upon Spirit management to communicate further details about this problem and the effect it is having and will have on the operation and the business.
In a recent message from Spirit Flight Operations, the Company announced reduced pilot hiring and upgrades. The update from Greg Christopher, vice president —Flight Operations & OCC, last week did not indicate how long these reduced numbers will remain in place or how significantly the Pratt & Whitney engine issue will impact the operation over the next 24 months. We will continue to demand clarity from management and provide any information that becomes available.
The highest priority of this MEC is to secure the long-term well-being and prosperity of all Spirit pilots, and we will continue to advocate for any and all measures to safeguard our careers.
In Unity,
SPA MEC
10-17-2023, 02:14 AM
#3356
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,912
The $325m loss; the horse is already out of the barn. They will post a loss around $160m next week and probably $115m for Q4, based on estimates. Nothing is changing that, that is done.
Spirit has around 1.4m in cash and investments as of a few months ago
The real question is 2024 and the NEOs plus softening domestic demand with increased fuel costs. Nobody is expecting them to make money next year, it’s a matter of losing less than this year. Hiring 40 FOs a month through the end of the year will result in a reduction of workforce with surely more leaving than 40 a month, so the seniority list with surely shrink this year. Next year they can continue to soft hire resulting in less net pilots, minus attrition, to help with the NEOs.
The NEOs is the big question mark as RTX keeps changing guidance on the engines. It was originally a few hundred planes, now it is 700. Ot was originally going to be 30 days grounding per plane, now they are saying 300 days per plane. Just way too many questions.
I still believe CA VILs and FO “attrition to right size” makes the most sense. That being said, I can’t see many reason for any FO to stay here with the hiring still going on at legacy carriers.
Spirit has around 1.4m in cash and investments as of a few months ago
The real question is 2024 and the NEOs plus softening domestic demand with increased fuel costs. Nobody is expecting them to make money next year, it’s a matter of losing less than this year. Hiring 40 FOs a month through the end of the year will result in a reduction of workforce with surely more leaving than 40 a month, so the seniority list with surely shrink this year. Next year they can continue to soft hire resulting in less net pilots, minus attrition, to help with the NEOs.
The NEOs is the big question mark as RTX keeps changing guidance on the engines. It was originally a few hundred planes, now it is 700. Ot was originally going to be 30 days grounding per plane, now they are saying 300 days per plane. Just way too many questions.
I still believe CA VILs and FO “attrition to right size” makes the most sense. That being said, I can’t see many reason for any FO to stay here with the hiring still going on at legacy carriers.
10-17-2023, 02:19 AM
#3357
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
Hopefully no one quotes the idiot. I appealed to the mod to have the post removed. Whether a baiting management stooge, someone who failed training, someone who doesn't work here, or the worst and hopefully most unlikely case, a current pilot with an agenda to subvert the group, we need to send the collective message that this type of information release is the modern day equivalent of scab behavior.
If you support the collective bargaining rights of pilots, use your brain and don't engage with this. I appeal to have this thread deleted asap, although the damage is already done and this is obviously been saved by management lawyers, even if they posted it.
If you support the collective bargaining rights of pilots, use your brain and don't engage with this. I appeal to have this thread deleted asap, although the damage is already done and this is obviously been saved by management lawyers, even if they posted it.
10-17-2023, 02:33 AM
#3358
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,912
Hopefully no one quotes the idiot. I appealed to the mod to have the post removed. Whether a baiting management stooge, someone who failed training, someone who doesn't work here, or the worst and hopefully most unlikely case, a current pilot with an agenda to subvert the group, we need to send the collective message that this type of information release is the modern day equivalent of scab behavior.
If you support the collective bargaining rights of pilots, use your brain and don't engage with this. I appeal to have this thread deleted asap, although the damage is already done and this is obviously been saved by management lawyers, even if they posted it.
If you support the collective bargaining rights of pilots, use your brain and don't engage with this. I appeal to have this thread deleted asap, although the damage is already done and this is obviously been saved by management lawyers, even if they posted it.
As you know, these games are the industry, dress accordingly.
10-17-2023, 02:45 AM
#3359
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 157
He didn’t say anything subversive. The MEC itself sent that email out knowing it would lead to cause for concern and conversation. The LCC/ULCC airlines are going to have a hard time in the near term, NEOs aren’t helping it. Everyone should have their eyes open versus the fantasy land most of our new hires have lived the last handful of years.
As you know, these games are the industry, dress accordingly.
As you know, these games are the industry, dress accordingly.
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