Attrition
11-16-2022, 03:04 PM
#2541
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: CA
Posts: 183
Spirit intends to open two more new bases next year. Look at what happened when they opened IAH and ATL. Major involuntary displacements out of current bases. What do you think is going to happen when they open two more? Hint, more displacements
11-16-2022, 03:14 PM
#2542
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 461
Meanwhile, at SWA:
My pay expectations:
Current converted to hours:
12 yrs CA: $274.03
12 yrs FO: $191.81 (70% of CA)
05 yrs FO: $164.55 (86% of max FO)
01 yrs FO: $84.52 (44% of max FO)
In the year 2000, before all the CONCESSIONARY CONTRACTS, the going rate for a 737 classic Captain at max pay was around $226 per hour. Adjusted for inflation (Source BLS: CPI Index) is $399.
New Rates:
12 yrs CA: $399
12 yrs FO: $279.30
05 yrs FO: $240.20
01 yrs FO: $122.90
Now keep in mind, these rates are only reclaiming the concessions we gave up. This does NOT include a single pay raise or account for the fact that we are flying planes with 30-50 more seats. If we vote yes on anything less than this, we are still taking a massive paycut. Demand what you are worth!
My pay expectations:
Current converted to hours:
12 yrs CA: $274.03
12 yrs FO: $191.81 (70% of CA)
05 yrs FO: $164.55 (86% of max FO)
01 yrs FO: $84.52 (44% of max FO)
In the year 2000, before all the CONCESSIONARY CONTRACTS, the going rate for a 737 classic Captain at max pay was around $226 per hour. Adjusted for inflation (Source BLS: CPI Index) is $399.
New Rates:
12 yrs CA: $399
12 yrs FO: $279.30
05 yrs FO: $240.20
01 yrs FO: $122.90
Now keep in mind, these rates are only reclaiming the concessions we gave up. This does NOT include a single pay raise or account for the fact that we are flying planes with 30-50 more seats. If we vote yes on anything less than this, we are still taking a massive paycut. Demand what you are worth!
Hate to break it to you, but last go around the arbiter didn’t care about our seating capacity when he defined our “peers”.
11-16-2022, 07:07 PM
#2543
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,330
Did anyone except you say AIP?
Did I say I expected higher rates than SWA because of more seats in our planes?
Do you have a problem reading?
No, no, and yes.
11-16-2022, 07:07 PM
#2544
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 1,035
Yeah, they talk the talk. The two questions are:
1. Will they walk the walk while still agreeing to NK QOL work rules which seems far superior to current JB work rules in many non-monetary respects?
2. Is DOJ gonna allow the merger at all?
Answer those questions and a whole lot of decisions become easier.
1. Will they walk the walk while still agreeing to NK QOL work rules which seems far superior to current JB work rules in many non-monetary respects?
2. Is DOJ gonna allow the merger at all?
Answer those questions and a whole lot of decisions become easier.
2. Obviously they will.
11-16-2022, 07:12 PM
#2545
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 1,035
How do you know we will have "amazing leverage" 1-2yrs from now?? This industry can change with a snap of a finger. None of us have any clue where this economy or world will even be like in 1-2yrs. We need to take the best we can get now. Im not voting yes for mediocre stuff with the intention that we will get a great JCBA. We are all one event away from the music stopping and the games they are playing in Ukraine right now isn't giving me a tingly feeling. Or once this economy stops the hiring will come to a stop and that so called "leverage" goes out the window. I think we all need to fight for the best NOW, not a band-aid in hopes of something great that may never happen 1-2yrs from now. Ive been in this industry long enough, even 6 months is an eternity.
I wasn’t advocating for voting for anything mediocre ever. Seriously! Top A320 pay now and again in a JCBA. Nothing less.
You’re missing the point of leverage in our JCBA with JetBlue. It’s not so much the pilot supply issue while that will help a lot if it continues. It’s that JetBlue cannot run two completely different airlines. They need one larger JetBlue and they can’t do it without a JCBA. Frontier on the other hand could have easily run two very similar airlines while appearing to negotiate.
Wake up and read your section 1 and JetBlue’s section 1
11-17-2022, 08:29 AM
#2546
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 461
It is from a SWA pilot, stating the pay rates that would be required to adjust 2000 B737 rates for inflation. The seating capacity change he is talking about is within SWA from then to now.
Did anyone except you say AIP?
Did I say I expected higher rates than SWA because of more seats in our planes?
Do you have a problem reading?
No, no, and yes.
Did anyone except you say AIP?
Did I say I expected higher rates than SWA because of more seats in our planes?
Do you have a problem reading?
No, no, and yes.
Start your “No” vote campaign now, because you’re going to be very disappointed when we get a TA to vote on.
11-17-2022, 09:54 AM
#2547
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,330
Yes, you got me! Reading comprehension was never my thing. Being a realist and not living in a fantasy world is though. Posting someone’s pipe dream at SWA doesn’t do any good. Might as well post Delta pre 9/11 rates accounting for inflation or United’s A380 rates.
Start your “No” vote campaign now, because you’re going to be very disappointed when we get a TA to vote on.
Start your “No” vote campaign now, because you’re going to be very disappointed when we get a TA to vote on.
11-17-2022, 11:03 AM
#2548
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 393
I dunno, if Alaska is a pay cut, I don’t know what our rates are, a severe pay cut. I’d be surprised if we beat Alaska’s new rate before our JCBA with B6. Ideally yes, we’d get a fat raise that would outpace inflation and match the regional pay increase percentages. But like the poster above said, reality is probably gonna hold us short of those expectations.
Last edited by Lakeaffect; 11-17-2022 at 11:18 AM.
11-17-2022, 11:30 AM
#2549
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,733
How do you know we will have "amazing leverage" 1-2yrs from now?? This industry can change with a snap of a finger. None of us have any clue where this economy or world will even be like in 1-2yrs. We need to take the best we can get now. Im not voting yes for mediocre stuff with the intention that we will get a great JCBA. We are all one event away from the music stopping and the games they are playing in Ukraine right now isn't giving me a tingly feeling. Or once this economy stops the hiring will come to a stop and that so called "leverage" goes out the window. I think we all need to fight for the best NOW, not a band-aid in hopes of something great that may never happen 1-2yrs from now. Ive been in this industry long enough, even 6 months is an eternity.
11-17-2022, 12:01 PM
#2550
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,330
I dunno, if Alaska is a pay cut, I don’t know what our rates are, a severe pay cut. I’d be surprised if we beat Alaska’s new rate before our JCBA with B6. Ideally yes, we’d get a fat raise that would outpace inflation and match the regional pay increase percentages. But like the poster above said, reality is probably gonna hold us short of those expectations.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
