Attrition
11-13-2022, 04:32 PM
#2481
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,908
Now if we could get people to not respond back, all of his posts would remain hidden. Time to take that dog on a long ride to a nice farm.
11-13-2022, 04:40 PM
#2482
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: Da Bus, Left
Posts: 1,548
11-13-2022, 04:42 PM
#2483
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,908
11-13-2022, 04:43 PM
#2484
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 1,035
You need to get a clue. Never have I suggested that ONLY first year pilots need to get a raise.
But I’ll ask you the same questions I’ve fruitlessly asked others, since they seem ashamed to answer:
Because if you truly believe that it’s all that’s bringing management to the table, why wouldn’t you keep screwing over the newbies. I mean according to the DOL unions are supposed to bargain for everyone covered by the CBA, even newbies. You going to leave them without insurance in the next contract too?
And clearly, other companies with high attrition have come to the table (Alaska for instance) without their pilot groups having to screw their first year guys. So give me an idea - days, weeks, months, or years - that this would have to not work before you would ever admit it’s not going to work.
And I have a clue about how to treat people decently. I would have never agreed with a policy of holding our new hires hostage to ostensibly gain leverage over management, even if I believed it did work or was working. It’s something dishonorable. Too much like what a terrorist would think would be OK.
And the reason I think nobody has yet answered those two questions is because when they start to they feel it is dishonorable and don’t want to admit it even to themselves.
But I’ll ask you the same questions I’ve fruitlessly asked others, since they seem ashamed to answer:
Because if you truly believe that it’s all that’s bringing management to the table, why wouldn’t you keep screwing over the newbies. I mean according to the DOL unions are supposed to bargain for everyone covered by the CBA, even newbies. You going to leave them without insurance in the next contract too?
And clearly, other companies with high attrition have come to the table (Alaska for instance) without their pilot groups having to screw their first year guys. So give me an idea - days, weeks, months, or years - that this would have to not work before you would ever admit it’s not going to work.
And I have a clue about how to treat people decently. I would have never agreed with a policy of holding our new hires hostage to ostensibly gain leverage over management, even if I believed it did work or was working. It’s something dishonorable. Too much like what a terrorist would think would be OK.
And the reason I think nobody has yet answered those two questions is because when they start to they feel it is dishonorable and don’t want to admit it even to themselves.
2. It’s working right now. Period.
However, I’d again vote against very low first year pay in a new CBA/loa/extrentuon/JCBA bc I want to fly people that are good not the lowest we could legally get.
You have been on this first year rant for some time now and when you started it you did not include raises for everyone. You’re saying that now
11-13-2022, 04:55 PM
#2485
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 393
Show me WHERE I’ve recommended giving a raise to the first year people and nobody else.
When you give up on that, show me where you have renounced screwing over the new guys in the NEXT contract. You seem to be avoiding making that commitment.
Seriously, the fight is with management. Don’t you feel even a little sheepish about holding the new guys hostage financially - and even worse, in terms of insurance coverage - because you BELIEVE that MAY give you leverage? I get it, NK has a Neanderthal management, but what does that say about the rest of the pilot group if they hold innocent non-combatants hostage?
I get it, NK management can be turds, but do you really think that’s the right way to treat our fellow coworkers?
When you give up on that, show me where you have renounced screwing over the new guys in the NEXT contract. You seem to be avoiding making that commitment.
Seriously, the fight is with management. Don’t you feel even a little sheepish about holding the new guys hostage financially - and even worse, in terms of insurance coverage - because you BELIEVE that MAY give you leverage? I get it, NK has a Neanderthal management, but what does that say about the rest of the pilot group if they hold innocent non-combatants hostage?
I get it, NK management can be turds, but do you really think that’s the right way to treat our fellow coworkers?
If you’re saying everyone needs a raise….,,No Sh1t!!! What are you even arguing about, I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall!
11-13-2022, 05:53 PM
#2486
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 43
Well you guys are just evil then. First you strongarm us into coming to spirit, then you get all butt hurt when is newbies retroactively and frantically demand higher pay rates. We expect you to use your time machines and go back to renegotiate our contract to reflect pay raises given in the last 3 months.
11-13-2022, 06:20 PM
#2487
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 43
I say that in relationship to the percentage difference between first year pay and other FO pay and the ALPA comparisons demonstrate it.
Ten other airlines have gotten better payscales than NK WITHOUT screwing over their newbies.
That’s a fact, not an opinion.
And yeah, I know, when you were a kid you didn’t have a yellow school bus, you had to walk to school, 10 miles through sleet and snow, uphill both ways.
Ten other airlines have gotten better payscales than NK WITHOUT screwing over their newbies.
That’s a fact, not an opinion.
And yeah, I know, when you were a kid you didn’t have a yellow school bus, you had to walk to school, 10 miles through sleet and snow, uphill both ways.
11-14-2022, 10:30 AM
#2489
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 551
If the company doesn’t want to play ball, they get to live with the resultant effects on hiring/attrition. All the rest is just gossip about Ted and Bendo and checking out until the merger or showing off for Robin. I don’t need weekly status updates to know the NC is doing their job, either bring me something to vote on, or give us a summary of what was discussed if we walk away from the table.
11-14-2022, 10:46 AM
#2490
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: Student of the game
Posts: 1,026
Why does the next email matter? One of two things will happen, the company will make an offer worthy of bringing to the pilot group for a vote, or they will not counter with any acceptable terms for a TA and we go on negotiating the entire CBA. That’s it.
If the company doesn’t want to play ball, they get to live with the resultant effects on hiring/attrition. All the rest is just gossip about Ted and Bendo and checking out until the merger or showing off for Robin. I don’t need weekly status updates to know the NC is doing their job, either bring me something to vote on, or give us a summary of what was discussed if we walk away from the table.
If the company doesn’t want to play ball, they get to live with the resultant effects on hiring/attrition. All the rest is just gossip about Ted and Bendo and checking out until the merger or showing off for Robin. I don’t need weekly status updates to know the NC is doing their job, either bring me something to vote on, or give us a summary of what was discussed if we walk away from the table.
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