Chimpy

there’s a local CFI at my airport who messaged me telling me he has an interview. He asked the likelihood of him Holding Philly as a base 😄. He also has 1300hrs TT. Not sure why we are interviewing him just yet but we must be in bad shape if we are interviewing people who don’t have 1500hrs (or even ATP) at time of interview.

(great guy, not saying I wouldn’t like flying with him), but was a bit taken back when he told me he had an interview

sioux8ships

Welcome to all CA’s doing OE and not getting paid the override whether we like it or not.

Lakeaffect

1. That’s a hard question to answer. Newbies certainly got screwed the worst, but all longevity’s were screwed. I think management would be wise to not bring a low pay package to the table. I don’t think we should settle for less than industry standard pay.

2. Are you talking about 1st year pay when you say newbies? If Frontier decides to lower 1st year pay to NK (that would indicate that it’s more beneficial to management) I personally will admit that it’s not working.

Excargodog

You answered NEITHER question. I ask again:

1. Do you advocate screwing over the newbies AGAIN in the NEXT CBA to maintain the supposed leverage?
2. How LONG would this screw the newbies tactic have to not work before you could be convinced it won’t work?

CLE to IAH

Lol my thread looks like this…..

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y’all have got this dude WOUND. UP. today

putzin

In other news:

https://www.tmz.com/2022/11/13/flavor-flav-spirit-airlines-missed-flight-angry/

CincoDeMayo

Haha.

The irony that a man known for wearing a house clock around his neck, is late to his flight.

dualinput

Classes are NOT full. People are no showing. Mins are as low as they an get them and training capacity is maxed. Yes they like replacing a higher longevity with a first year low paid guy but only if they can continue to do that AND fly the planes 13hrs a day to be profitable. They cannot do that right now.

The time to raise first year pay was 4.5yrs ago which is one of the reasons I voted against and the time to do it is in this negotiation for all of us. Unilaterally raising first year pay is why frontier management won’t be at the table any time soon. It’s the only reason our management is even sitting down. They’ve tried everything else. They lowered mins. They increased training capacity exponentially which is not cheap btw. It requires real estate and devices we didn’t previously have. And now they still can’t fly the fleet 13hrs a day. So they came to the table reluctantly and what did they put down first? Raise first year pay only. Of course!

So yes it’s working. Was it worth having first year be so low for so long, no not imo but it’s working now so you don’t just raise only first year pay now when all the other parts of the puzzle are in place. You need to get a clue.

ShortBusRider

Apparently y’all old folks screwed over us newbies. I don’t know if I’m supposed to be offended or not. But imagine he’s crying due to rage while typing.

Excargodog

You need to get a clue. Never have I suggested that ONLY first year pilots need to get a raise.

But I’ll ask you the same questions I’ve fruitlessly asked others, since they seem ashamed to answer:

Because if you truly believe that it’s all that’s bringing management to the table, why wouldn’t you keep screwing over the newbies. I mean according to the DOL unions are supposed to bargain for everyone covered by the CBA, even newbies. You going to leave them without insurance in the next contract too?


And clearly, other companies with high attrition have come to the table (Alaska for instance) without their pilot groups having to screw their first year guys. So give me an idea - days, weeks, months, or years - that this would have to not work before you would ever admit it’s not going to work.

And I have a clue about how to treat people decently. I would have never agreed with a policy of holding our new hires hostage to ostensibly gain leverage over management, even if I believed it did work or was working. It’s something dishonorable. Too much like what a terrorist would think would be OK.

And the reason I think nobody has yet answered those two questions is because when they start to they feel it is dishonorable and don’t want to admit it even to themselves.