Attrition
11-11-2022, 02:45 PM
#2421
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
I’d be curious to know other airlines numbers too. I think the corner of the industry were in being ulcc and lcc it’s somewhat common. We’re not a regional and not going to lose everyone to mainline or another major. But some still use this, especially early in their career, as a stepping stone to get to a legacy or cargo. The legacy hiring has definitely increased attrition though. But again they didn’t hire 800 people and 400 of them left. Most of the people leaving are senior FOs and junior captains. Those 800 hired will replace most of the 400 that left and then grow the fo side. If they need more captains they can lower the minimums and have plenty of people eligible to upgrade.
11-11-2022, 05:23 PM
#2422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,189
Facts are facts whether they are the ones we wish or not. Regionals are starting to fail, despite substantial pay increases as their CAs are being hired away. The FOs are going to go somewhere, if only to get a new type and more 121 hours to become competitive - even with NKs first year pay.
But the under utilized inventory is still an overhead cost. When you are flying more than ever before with more aircraft than ever before yet still not making money, you can’t keep it up forever. Management can either do something to increase retention or start selling aircraft delivery slots and I don’t think JetBlue would put up with the latter.
But the under utilized inventory is still an overhead cost. When you are flying more than ever before with more aircraft than ever before yet still not making money, you can’t keep it up forever. Management can either do something to increase retention or start selling aircraft delivery slots and I don’t think JetBlue would put up with the latter.
Id argue that all remaining regionals (despite obvious CA attrition leaving for legacies) probably have a solid chance of replacing them when someone enters into the career-field at 1500 hours now flying a RJ at $90-100+ an hour vs $30 a few years ago.
I have a friend who is a banker. Has PPL/Inst on the side and has 900ish hours. It’s obvious his passion in life is flying, but getting his last 600ish hours and taking a MASSIVE pay cut at regional pay (what it was prior to now) wasn’t worth it. Now he’s seriously considering it.
11-11-2022, 06:09 PM
#2423
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,330
I supposed you want a cookie because I didn’t specify the past month was 3x and the year over was only 2x. Growth is growth. im not misrepresenting specific data that actually means anything. Half the pilots “hired” didn’t leave. The pilots leaving weren’t all new hires a lot out in years of service before leaving.
"The pilots leaving weren’t all new hires a lot out in years of service before leaving"
11-11-2022, 06:28 PM
#2424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
You’re harping on me about the same thing you’re doing. You’re misquoting me to push your agenda that I was wrong. I didn’t say one way or the other if I was talking about the monthly or yearly numbers and you even said the original quote mentioned both so I could have been talking about either one yet you wanna take what I said just to prove I was wrong. If that’s your full agenda to make a single comment and point out a misquoted number one a forum that means very little sure go for. Hope that makes your day. Pathetic.
11-11-2022, 07:06 PM
#2425
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,330
You’re harping on me about the same thing you’re doing. You’re misquoting me to push your agenda that I was wrong. I didn’t say one way or the other if I was talking about the monthly or yearly numbers and you even said the original quote mentioned both so I could have been talking about either one yet you wanna take what I said just to prove I was wrong. If that’s your full agenda to make a single comment and point out a misquoted number one a forum that means very little sure go for. Hope that makes your day. Pathetic.
11-12-2022, 04:44 AM
#2426
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
Nope. I am harping on you because you are wrong, and post nonsense. You called out someone for looking at the whole year, without mentioning you were looking at the monthly numbers. You really think that month made the difference? And when I called you out on that, you incorrectly said the original post was only about the last month. And when I explained that to you, you offered me a cookie. You are the @$$ here. I quoted your whole reply, what could I have misquoted? Yeah, we are still growing, but we are still parking airplanes because of lack of crew. And losing half of the amount of people you have hired is part of the problem. Grow up. I've been wrong before and admitted it on here.
I’m not wrong. I wanted to point out the monthly growth was pretty high at 3x and you want me to be wrong and say it’s 2x because you want me to have been talking about yearly numbers. Both were mentioned and I could have been talking about either. Just drop it.
11-12-2022, 07:25 AM
#2427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 549
Whole year vs monthly it’s still growth. They still hired twice as many people that left comparatively. They also didn’t hire and pay for training and a type on all 800 people for half of them to leave as soon as they got a type like the post suggested. There’s no way to know for sure the exact number but the majority of people leaving have a couple years of service and have at least generated revenue for the company that paid for the type. Year over year the seniority list is larger.
I’m not wrong. I wanted to point out the monthly growth was pretty high at 3x and you want me to be wrong and say it’s 2x because you want me to have been talking about yearly numbers. Both were mentioned and I could have been talking about either. Just drop it.
I’m not wrong. I wanted to point out the monthly growth was pretty high at 3x and you want me to be wrong and say it’s 2x because you want me to have been talking about yearly numbers. Both were mentioned and I could have been talking about either. Just drop it.
Take it from an *******: you're being an *******.
11-12-2022, 07:29 AM
#2428
Almost there
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,283
I’d be curious to know other airlines numbers too. I think the corner of the industry were in being ulcc and lcc it’s somewhat common. We’re not a regional and not going to lose everyone to mainline or another major. But some still use this, especially early in their career, as a stepping stone to get to a legacy or cargo. The legacy hiring has definitely increased attrition though. But again they didn’t hire 800 people and 400 of them left. Most of the people leaving are senior FOs and junior captains. Those 800 hired will replace most of the 400 that left and then grow the fo side. If they need more captains they can lower the minimums and have plenty of people eligible to upgrade.
11-12-2022, 08:13 AM
#2429
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,112
What are you talking about? The only regionals to “fail” are Compass and Express Jet. Both closed shop well before the current regional pay increases. There are rumors of Blow Jet and one/two others having issues, but the fact remains no one has failed since this has started with legitimate pay.
Id argue that all remaining regionals (despite obvious CA attrition leaving for legacies) probably have a solid chance of replacing them when someone enters into the career-field at 1500 hours now flying a RJ at $90-100+ an hour vs $30 a few years ago.
I have a friend who is a banker. Has PPL/Inst on the side and has 900ish hours. It’s obvious his passion in life is flying, but getting his last 600ish hours and taking a MASSIVE pay cut at regional pay (what it was prior to now) wasn’t worth it. Now he’s seriously considering it.
Id argue that all remaining regionals (despite obvious CA attrition leaving for legacies) probably have a solid chance of replacing them when someone enters into the career-field at 1500 hours now flying a RJ at $90-100+ an hour vs $30 a few years ago.
I have a friend who is a banker. Has PPL/Inst on the side and has 900ish hours. It’s obvious his passion in life is flying, but getting his last 600ish hours and taking a MASSIVE pay cut at regional pay (what it was prior to now) wasn’t worth it. Now he’s seriously considering it.
If a regional has 800 CAs and 1200 FOs and is losing 50 CAs and 20 senior FOs a month to the Legacy/LC/ULCC/ACMI world, how long can the regional survive by hiring guys like your banker friend once they have accumulated the additional 600ish hours of time they need for their ATP? Because attrition there matters even more than at NK. What percentage of people at NK DON’t have 1000 hours of 121 time by the time they are off first year pay? Some, I’ll grant you, who came from the part 135 or 91 world, but damn few. But almost everybody meets legal criteria to upgrade by year two. Not so the guy/gal starting at 0 121 time at a regional and getting 25 hours a month on reserve.
the regionals are contracting because of loss of CA and CA-eligible pilots. Why do you think they are giving massive bonuses for DECs?
11-12-2022, 10:08 AM
#2430
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,112
And it isn’t like they aren’t trying:
• PSA is hiring for all Pilot positions
o First Officers
o Experienced First Officers with 600+ hours of 121 flying experience within the last five years receive a $10,000 experience bonus
o Direct Entry Captains (with accelerated paths to become a Line Check Airman available), (1000+ hours of 121 flying experience within the last five years required)
• PSA is now accepting applications from Australian pilots eligible for an E-3 Visa. E-3 Visa applicants must meet all hiring and Visa requirements prior to hire. Complete the First Officer application and a member of our recruiting team will reach out regarding next steps.
• PSA has a Cadet Program that is open to all colleges, flight schools and universities, offering $15,000 for tuition reimbursement.
• PSA is hiring for all Pilot positions
o First Officers
o Experienced First Officers with 600+ hours of 121 flying experience within the last five years receive a $10,000 experience bonus
o Direct Entry Captains (with accelerated paths to become a Line Check Airman available), (1000+ hours of 121 flying experience within the last five years required)
• PSA is now accepting applications from Australian pilots eligible for an E-3 Visa. E-3 Visa applicants must meet all hiring and Visa requirements prior to hire. Complete the First Officer application and a member of our recruiting team will reach out regarding next steps.
• PSA has a Cadet Program that is open to all colleges, flight schools and universities, offering $15,000 for tuition reimbursement.
o First Officers
o Experienced First Officers with 600+ hours of 121 flying experience within the last five years receive a $10,000 experience bonus
o Direct Entry Captains (with accelerated paths to become a Line Check Airman available), (1000+ hours of 121 flying experience within the last five years required)
• PSA is now accepting applications from Australian pilots eligible for an E-3 Visa. E-3 Visa applicants must meet all hiring and Visa requirements prior to hire. Complete the First Officer application and a member of our recruiting team will reach out regarding next steps.
• PSA has a Cadet Program that is open to all colleges, flight schools and universities, offering $15,000 for tuition reimbursement.
• PSA is hiring for all Pilot positions
o First Officers
o Experienced First Officers with 600+ hours of 121 flying experience within the last five years receive a $10,000 experience bonus
o Direct Entry Captains (with accelerated paths to become a Line Check Airman available), (1000+ hours of 121 flying experience within the last five years required)
• PSA is now accepting applications from Australian pilots eligible for an E-3 Visa. E-3 Visa applicants must meet all hiring and Visa requirements prior to hire. Complete the First Officer application and a member of our recruiting team will reach out regarding next steps.
• PSA has a Cadet Program that is open to all colleges, flight schools and universities, offering $15,000 for tuition reimbursement.
So how much do you think your 600 hours away from ATP eligibility junior banker dude will help them?
Last edited by Excargodog; 11-12-2022 at 10:25 AM.
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