Cyio

It seems people get all bent out of shape about this and I don't know why. If you all really think that TC is reading this forum and basing their entire strategy on what Excargodog thinks is a good rate, I have some ocean front property in AZ to sell you. Sure, if there is an organized sick out or something on here it could certainly be used in court, but one person throwing some arbitrary rates out, I just can't get behind that thinking. I admit I could be totally wrong about this, but I don't think so and that's because if this was true, posting about super high rates should also work by letting them know they can't come in with something too low. You can't have one without the other.

CincoDeMayo

Apathy breeds apathy. Why would anyone in life proudly state low end goals?

We might not marry a 10, but nobody grows up saying they will settle to marry a 6. The NC should be tasked with getting every thing they can, to squeeze every ounce of leverage, not take the apathetic approach of “I’ll settle”

Cyio

OK, but the opposite of that should be true as well. Many people on here were posting high rates, is that considered negotiating in public? I don't do either of them, mainly because I don't think it matters what we say on this forum, the company and NC are going to do what they are going to do, which is make a deal they can both live with. I just don't see the harm in it if one person posts low rates while others post high rates.
I can see what you are saying about apathy breeding apathy and perhaps you are right on that, I was looking at this more from the argument people make about negotiating in public because somehow they are reading what people write in here and basing their offers on it, that I can't get behind.

Excargodog

And how many first year CAs do we have? Well, none, actually. And we are damn unlikely to have any more three year CAs even if we don’t rein in attrition. So those first year CA rates you are talking about? THEY DON’T EVEN COUNT. And what is 220 x 1.05^12 x 1.08 X1.06 x1.06 for the next two and a half years compared to what we are making now? Well let’s see:

Have you never heard of compound interest? Do the frickin MATH. $220K times 1.05^12 is is 1.796. Our 12 year CAs, which we do have - would be making $396 K x1.08 the first year plus the increased DC. And that’s just the first year. That would go up by 6% - a measly $24k a year plus 17% DC, on the next subsequent year

THERE’s nothing that shows how foolish know-it-alls are than their inability to do compound interest. Thank God you know-it-alls have dispatchers to figure your reserve fuel for you. You are the ones demonstrating how stupid you are. My father knew better than to bite on that one when I tried to get him to bite on the compound interest trap for my allowance - when I was eleven years old.

THE SAME THING GOES FOR OTHER NONLINEAR RAISES. An LOA TODAY - just bringing us up to JB pay will pay us more over the next two and a half years than a CBA six months before the merge giving us JB plus 20% - especially when you consider the time value of money.

So yeah, maybe we ought to talk things up on boards rather than deferring the negotiating to people that obviously either can’t do high school level math or are just so damn arrogant and self sure they won’t even pick up a calculator and do the math.

SlimBob

Sub standard everything except 17% DC. Make it 18%, or 19%. Won't matter the outcome is the same as we all max out the annual IRS total contribution limit. 16% will allow one to max out the 2022 limit if 300/hr is the goal.

Let's aim a bit higher across the board.
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Excargodog

See above. Do the math.

pangolin

Where do I buy Rolling Stones tickets?

symbian simian

And the next day you flew 2 and got paid for 5..... Industry standard, won't happen.
What we do need is block or better per leg. 3 leg day, not duty period, over-block leg 1 by an hour due to no gate at destination. Hurry the next 2 legs to make up for it, and end up losing that extra hour of pay.

JulesWinfield

We also need a true min day or some compensation after 2am. 10 hour 3 days blow.

symbian simian

I disagree with the second part. We don't work calendar days, we work TAFB. You can't really compare a 33 hour TAFB "3-day" (midnight redeye from LAS, 22 hours in CLE, early morning return, done at 9am, look al L4287), with a 10 legs, 16hr block& credit 58hr TAFB 3-day (L4191). The only thing calendar day does is move the redeyes to the middle of trips, and have more early starts and late finishes. As a commuter, no thanks.
Agree with the first, if you are talking redeye override. But I also think we should get 0:45 hours of pay per leg, and pay should start at scheduled or actual off blocks, whichever is earlier, and that will never happen.