Excargodog

Yet ULCC (that is, Frontier) actually was profitable this quarter.

Maybe keeping first year pay at less than regional first year pay really ISN’T the way to attract and retain pilots. Maybe if - considering hotel and training costs - the first year pilots actually cost NK MORE than second year pilots, NK management would be willing to pay more to RETAIN the junior pilots necessary to staff those new airframes in a time of pilot shortage..

How in H€|| do you EXPECT to compete for new hires when even startups like Breeze and Avelo are paying more? When regionals are paying more. Whoever thought screwing over the new guys was a good tactical or strategic move for the pilots was an idiot - at least in this environment and with this management.

Hopefully B6 will happen and their management (and pilot group) will fix this.

Meep

While first year pay is an issue, it’s far from the only issue. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be 2/3 year FOs and junior captains leaving. Plain and simple, as long as legacies are hiring there will be massive attrition.

Excargodog

There is seldom only a single issue. Clearly NK management is no longer very worried about the long term viability of NK, since it won’t involve them. But all bad policies contribute to the current problems and the inability to attract and retain pilots isn’t helping. Right now the bright spot on the horizon is that the acquisition by B6 actually will happen. Without that the attrition - even by CAs - would likely be even worse. Getting rid of current management seems to be the only real hope, but I don’t think there is any question that the pi$$-poor first year training pay, lack of insurance, and first year payscale are hurting NK badly right now. Those who thought that was a good idea were mistaken.

JulesWinfield

They were slightly profitable. They’re also cutting 4000 flights, mainly out of Florida, so they are following the Spirit playbook.

CLE to IAH

ferst yer perrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

El Peso

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/09/spir...s-q2-2022.html

Cyio

I have said this before, but it stands repeating. The ULCC model seems to plateau as the number of planes/flights/personal increase, eventually becoming unsustainable without changing the structure. You just can't run an airline after a certain size on a shoestring budget with all third party vendors. The whole economy of scale things plays out here. Personally JB buying NK was the best thing that could have happened for NK, as it will force them, by means of no longer existing, to upscale the operation.

Obviously the only solution to this problem outside of being bought out is to invest more into your infrastructure, but that means raising prices, which means you are no longer nearly as competitive as SWA/AA/UA etc on those same routes, especially given the extra services and comfort your competitors offer, not to mention route structure and frequency. ULCC works great at smaller sizes and on certain routes, but once you start to compete against more traditional carriers and you grow to do so, things start to unravel. Just my opinion

Popeye0537

Lol please do if you're senior to me! Abandon ship if you're going to a legacy otherwise theres no reason to. Career stagnation? Yes go to Breeze, Avelo,Sun Country, Frontier....you will have a much better Career over there😂😂

dualinput

Yep this is pretty much it. Frontier made money because they are still in the airframe sweet spot. Once they grow some more the ULCC issues will be unsustainable. That’s why a merger with frontier and spirit was a death wish.

APCHCLIMB

Death wish, eh? What about all the legacies with billions in debt? Leveraged out their eyeballs. Any death wishes there?
Stop being a drama queen.