Attrition
07-21-2022, 11:46 AM
#1562
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,278
What did JetBlue give up to get their first year guys where they are today? And why should NK first year guys be paid any less than B6 first year guys? NK pilots have been waiting two contracts over a decade - waiting for NK management to provide B6 level first year pay without “wasting” leverage and it hasn’t happened.
07-21-2022, 12:50 PM
#1563
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
What did JetBlue give up to get their first year guys where they are today? And why should NK first year guys be paid any less than B6 first year guys? NK pilots have been waiting two contracts over a decade - waiting for NK management to provide B6 level first year pay without “wasting” leverage and it hasn’t happened.
2. Now please answer, what would you give up for the other 95% of the Spirit pilot group, to get a first-year pay raise?
07-21-2022, 01:11 PM
#1564
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
But, let's assume you are correct. What would have to be given up in order to achieve the industry's lowest or nearly lowest 1st year pay??? Not much I hope... And the contract allowed management to raise 1st year pay without union approval, up to a limit.
So what I said was more or less correct.
07-21-2022, 01:27 PM
#1565
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,147
Even your "story" doesn't tell the whole story. It's unlikely that you know if anything was given up for the original 1st year pay unless you were on the negotiating committee, executive council or were close to someone who was.
But, let's assume you are correct. What would have to be given up in order to achieve the industry's lowest or nearly lowest 1st year pay??? Not much I hope... And the contract allowed management to raise 1st year pay without union approval, up to a limit.
So what I said was more or less correct.
But, let's assume you are correct. What would have to be given up in order to achieve the industry's lowest or nearly lowest 1st year pay??? Not much I hope... And the contract allowed management to raise 1st year pay without union approval, up to a limit.
So what I said was more or less correct.
yeah what you said was correct that’s why I deleted the post seconds later. A bit more to the story as it wasn’t like there was no protections (union approval). You can go ahead and assume I’m correct.
07-21-2022, 01:44 PM
#1566
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
07-21-2022, 03:54 PM
#1568
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,112
1. NK management has already demonstrated that they are out the door, so they aren’t going to negotiate anything They're leaving it to whatever management group supersedes them.
2. PreCOVID, there was a LOT more than 5% first year guys. Growing 15% per year with three year upgrades, ~52% of pilots were CAs and ~48% were FOs, meaning nearly a third of the FOs WERE first year.
And with cheap (less than $50k a year) replacements, NK management had no incentive to either raise first year pay OR bring FO or junior CA pay up to industry standard.
Had we made them pay through the nose for every newbie brought on board they might have paid the more senior guys more to avoid attrition. As it was, we let them have a contract that made filling vacancies cheap for them and they used that to hold down pilot pay for everyone.
Prove me wrong.
07-21-2022, 04:09 PM
#1569
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Erroneous question in two different regards.
1. NK management has already demonstrated that they are out the door, so they aren’t going to negotiate anything They're leaving it to whatever management group supersedes them.
2. PreCOVID, there was a LOT more than 5% first year guys. Growing 15% per year with three year upgrades, ~52% of pilots were CAs and ~48% were FOs, meaning nearly a third of the FOs WERE first year.
And with cheap (less than $50k a year) replacements, NK management had no incentive to either raise first year pay OR bring FO or junior CA pay up to industry standard.
Had we made them pay through the nose for every newbie brought on board they might have paid the more senior guys more to avoid attrition. As it was, we let them have a contract that made filling vacancies cheap for them and they used that to hold down pilot pay for everyone.
Prove me wrong.
1. NK management has already demonstrated that they are out the door, so they aren’t going to negotiate anything They're leaving it to whatever management group supersedes them.
2. PreCOVID, there was a LOT more than 5% first year guys. Growing 15% per year with three year upgrades, ~52% of pilots were CAs and ~48% were FOs, meaning nearly a third of the FOs WERE first year.
And with cheap (less than $50k a year) replacements, NK management had no incentive to either raise first year pay OR bring FO or junior CA pay up to industry standard.
Had we made them pay through the nose for every newbie brought on board they might have paid the more senior guys more to avoid attrition. As it was, we let them have a contract that made filling vacancies cheap for them and they used that to hold down pilot pay for everyone.
Prove me wrong.
07-21-2022, 04:11 PM
#1570
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,147
Hard to go back in time and prove something that never happened. When contracts are negotiated your negotiating a total economic value over the length of the agreement. Dollar amounts are assigned to language. Generally speaking management doesn’t care much how the $ is divided up. As long as it’s reasonable. So thier not going to pay more on all scales without giving up some other costs. Rig/vac/medical… ect… I’m out after that statement. You two have fun.
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