Attrition
07-18-2022, 12:50 PM
#1511
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,181
you should have known better than to pull his string. He’s a one trick pony and that trick is ZOMG FERST YERR PEHHHHH!!!!
hopefully learning has occurred. It’s no different than the lessons we learned as kids with such mystical magic as “beetlegeuice” and “bloody Mary”
when excargo sees his shadow, it’s 6 more posts of first year pay.
hopefully learning has occurred. It’s no different than the lessons we learned as kids with such mystical magic as “beetlegeuice” and “bloody Mary”
when excargo sees his shadow, it’s 6 more posts of first year pay.
You don’t want the response, don’t pull the string. It’s as simple as that.
07-18-2022, 02:16 PM
#1512
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,786
Yep. F9 raised the pay. Not to industry standard but some. which doesn’t change my position a Whit.
I’m not saying we don’t have leverage - we certainly do. But the idea that the union shouldn’t look after the new hires has always been anathema to me. The union has a moral and legal responsibility to look after ALL of the group covered by the contract. Plus, it’s the right thing to do for pilot unity - you know, what a UNION is all about? Nor am I picking on you, NK, or F9 SPECIFICALLY, I’ve picked on all of those plus UPS simply because their unions hung their first years out to dry. UPS still does:
Even though it is plainly obvious from the later payrates that in the long run everyone will get decent or better compensation.
And I have never adversely commented on the B6 first year pay, simply because it is industry standard. Hopefully after the JCBA it will REMAIN industry standard and the combined pilot group will continue to support new hires appropriately.
What I object to - and I understand others have other opinions - is the attitude you expressed that we mustn’t “waste” leverage on first year pilots.
I don’t see easing the transition of our junior brethren into the pilot group to be a waste and - yeah, am probably going to express my opinion whenever someone expresses the one you expressed. So if you don’t want to see a rebuttal it’s probably best not to bring it up.
You want to consider that your version of “not feeding the troll,” that’s fine.
I’m not saying we don’t have leverage - we certainly do. But the idea that the union shouldn’t look after the new hires has always been anathema to me. The union has a moral and legal responsibility to look after ALL of the group covered by the contract. Plus, it’s the right thing to do for pilot unity - you know, what a UNION is all about? Nor am I picking on you, NK, or F9 SPECIFICALLY, I’ve picked on all of those plus UPS simply because their unions hung their first years out to dry. UPS still does:
Even though it is plainly obvious from the later payrates that in the long run everyone will get decent or better compensation.
And I have never adversely commented on the B6 first year pay, simply because it is industry standard. Hopefully after the JCBA it will REMAIN industry standard and the combined pilot group will continue to support new hires appropriately.
What I object to - and I understand others have other opinions - is the attitude you expressed that we mustn’t “waste” leverage on first year pilots.
I don’t see easing the transition of our junior brethren into the pilot group to be a waste and - yeah, am probably going to express my opinion whenever someone expresses the one you expressed. So if you don’t want to see a rebuttal it’s probably best not to bring it up.
You want to consider that your version of “not feeding the troll,” that’s fine.
They could always put you on ignore. 🤷🏼♂️
07-18-2022, 03:33 PM
#1514
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,940
Yep. F9 raised the pay. Not to industry standard but some. which doesn’t change my position a Whit.
I’m not saying we don’t have leverage - we certainly do. But the idea that the union shouldn’t look after the new hires has always been anathema to me. The union has a moral and legal responsibility to look after ALL of the group covered by the contract. Plus, it’s the right thing to do for pilot unity - you know, what a UNION is all about? Nor am I picking on you, NK, or F9 SPECIFICALLY, I’ve picked on all of those plus UPS simply because their unions hung their first years out to dry. UPS still does:
Even though it is plainly obvious from the later payrates that in the long run everyone will get decent or better compensation.
And I have never adversely commented on the B6 first year pay, simply because it is industry standard. Hopefully after the JCBA it will REMAIN industry standard and the combined pilot group will continue to support new hires appropriately.
What I object to - and I understand others have other opinions - is the attitude you expressed that we mustn’t “waste” leverage on first year pilots.
I don’t see easing the transition of our junior brethren into the pilot group to be a waste and - yeah, am probably going to express my opinion whenever someone expresses the one you expressed. So if you don’t want to see a rebuttal it’s probably best not to bring it up.
You want to consider that your version of “not feeding the troll,” that’s fine.
I’m not saying we don’t have leverage - we certainly do. But the idea that the union shouldn’t look after the new hires has always been anathema to me. The union has a moral and legal responsibility to look after ALL of the group covered by the contract. Plus, it’s the right thing to do for pilot unity - you know, what a UNION is all about? Nor am I picking on you, NK, or F9 SPECIFICALLY, I’ve picked on all of those plus UPS simply because their unions hung their first years out to dry. UPS still does:
Even though it is plainly obvious from the later payrates that in the long run everyone will get decent or better compensation.
And I have never adversely commented on the B6 first year pay, simply because it is industry standard. Hopefully after the JCBA it will REMAIN industry standard and the combined pilot group will continue to support new hires appropriately.
What I object to - and I understand others have other opinions - is the attitude you expressed that we mustn’t “waste” leverage on first year pilots.
I don’t see easing the transition of our junior brethren into the pilot group to be a waste and - yeah, am probably going to express my opinion whenever someone expresses the one you expressed. So if you don’t want to see a rebuttal it’s probably best not to bring it up.
You want to consider that your version of “not feeding the troll,” that’s fine.
New number, who this?
07-18-2022, 03:43 PM
#1515
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Yep. F9 raised the pay. Not to industry standard but some. which doesn’t change my position a Whit.
I’m not saying we don’t have leverage - we certainly do. But the idea that the union shouldn’t look after the new hires has always been anathema to me. The union has a moral and legal responsibility to look after ALL of the group covered by the contract. Plus, it’s the right thing to do for pilot unity - you know, what a UNION is all about? Nor am I picking on you, NK, or F9 SPECIFICALLY, I’ve picked on all of those plus UPS simply because their unions hung their first years out to dry. UPS still does:
Even though it is plainly obvious from the later payrates that in the long run everyone will get decent or better compensation.
And I have never adversely commented on the B6 first year pay, simply because it is industry standard. Hopefully after the JCBA it will REMAIN industry standard and the combined pilot group will continue to support new hires appropriately.
What I object to - and I understand others have other opinions - is the attitude you expressed that we mustn’t “waste” leverage on first year pilots.
I don’t see easing the transition of our junior brethren into the pilot group to be a waste and - yeah, am probably going to express my opinion whenever someone expresses the one you expressed. So if you don’t want to see a rebuttal it’s probably best not to bring it up.
You want to consider that your version of “not feeding the troll,” that’s fine.
I’m not saying we don’t have leverage - we certainly do. But the idea that the union shouldn’t look after the new hires has always been anathema to me. The union has a moral and legal responsibility to look after ALL of the group covered by the contract. Plus, it’s the right thing to do for pilot unity - you know, what a UNION is all about? Nor am I picking on you, NK, or F9 SPECIFICALLY, I’ve picked on all of those plus UPS simply because their unions hung their first years out to dry. UPS still does:
Even though it is plainly obvious from the later payrates that in the long run everyone will get decent or better compensation.
And I have never adversely commented on the B6 first year pay, simply because it is industry standard. Hopefully after the JCBA it will REMAIN industry standard and the combined pilot group will continue to support new hires appropriately.
What I object to - and I understand others have other opinions - is the attitude you expressed that we mustn’t “waste” leverage on first year pilots.
I don’t see easing the transition of our junior brethren into the pilot group to be a waste and - yeah, am probably going to express my opinion whenever someone expresses the one you expressed. So if you don’t want to see a rebuttal it’s probably best not to bring it up.
You want to consider that your version of “not feeding the troll,” that’s fine.
Did Frontier raise 1st year pay out of "caring and love"? Yes or no? Was "caring and love" the reason? Yes or no?
And JB 1st year pay isn't standard, it's basically industry leading. Try and be accurate and precise when you speak to me.
You mistake the difference between what I desire as a final outcome, and the strategy I would employ to get there. Ultimately it is the COMPANY'S responsibility to staff the airline. It is the COMPANY'S responsibility to attract and retain new pilots. Day 1 of section 6 the company would LOVE for you to fix THEIR attraction and retention problem by offering up a reduction in expectations for the other 95%+ of the pilot group to finance an increase to year 1 pay. You would be their wet dream. In this environment where they can't staff the company, which is THEIR responsibility, and their business plans and promises to Wall Street don't work without staffing the company, you make it clear to them that you will give up NOTHING from your expectations for the other 95%+ of the pilot group. No robbing Peter to pay Paul on this one. And I guarantee you, that last, best final offer will magically have a competitive 1st year pay. That wasn't the case in the last cycle, predominantly for the ULCCs (which should tell you something about that business model), but it was for most of the rest of us, and WILL be the case this time.
So I'm going to respectfully expect you to stay the H E double-hockey-sticks away from my negotiating committee and executive council strategic planning, as you are all emotion and no situational awareness.
07-18-2022, 03:55 PM
#1516
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,342
Here's the things about me, I'm not the guy you can bully into "not bringing something up" for fear of YOUR rebuttal. Your words and analysis of the situation are basic and inaccurate, at best.
Did Frontier raise 1st year pay out of "caring and love"? Yes or no? Was "caring and love" the reason? Yes or no?
And JB 1st year pay isn't standard, it's basically industry leading. Try and be accurate and precise when you speak to me.
You mistake the difference between what I desire as a final outcome, and the strategy I would employ to get there. Ultimately it is the COMPANY'S responsibility to staff the airline. It is the COMPANY'S responsibility to attract and retain new pilots. Day 1 of section 6 the company would LOVE for you to fix THEIR attraction and retention problem by offering up a reduction in expectations for the other 95%+ of the pilot group to finance an increase to year 1 pay. You would be their wet dream. In this environment where they can't staff the company, which is THEIR responsibility, and their business plans and promises to Wall Street don't work without staffing the company, you make it clear to them that you will give up NOTHING from your expectations for the other 95%+ of the pilot group. No robbing Peter to pay Paul on this one. And I guarantee you, that last, best final offer will magically have a competitive 1st year pay. That wasn't the case in the last cycle, predominantly for the ULCCs (which should tell you something about that business model), but it was for most of the rest of us, and WILL be the case this time.
So I'm going to respectfully expect you to stay the H E double-hockey-sticks away from my negotiating committee and executive council strategic planning, as you are all emotion and no situational awareness.
Did Frontier raise 1st year pay out of "caring and love"? Yes or no? Was "caring and love" the reason? Yes or no?
And JB 1st year pay isn't standard, it's basically industry leading. Try and be accurate and precise when you speak to me.
You mistake the difference between what I desire as a final outcome, and the strategy I would employ to get there. Ultimately it is the COMPANY'S responsibility to staff the airline. It is the COMPANY'S responsibility to attract and retain new pilots. Day 1 of section 6 the company would LOVE for you to fix THEIR attraction and retention problem by offering up a reduction in expectations for the other 95%+ of the pilot group to finance an increase to year 1 pay. You would be their wet dream. In this environment where they can't staff the company, which is THEIR responsibility, and their business plans and promises to Wall Street don't work without staffing the company, you make it clear to them that you will give up NOTHING from your expectations for the other 95%+ of the pilot group. No robbing Peter to pay Paul on this one. And I guarantee you, that last, best final offer will magically have a competitive 1st year pay. That wasn't the case in the last cycle, predominantly for the ULCCs (which should tell you something about that business model), but it was for most of the rest of us, and WILL be the case this time.
So I'm going to respectfully expect you to stay the H E double-hockey-sticks away from my negotiating committee and executive council strategic planning, as you are all emotion and no situational awareness.
07-18-2022, 04:01 PM
#1517
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
07-18-2022, 04:16 PM
#1518
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,002
07-18-2022, 04:23 PM
#1519
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 723
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