Attrition
07-18-2022, 05:10 AM
#1501
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Seniority cuts two ways, it empowers you but entraps you as well. We need to be a UNIFIED group, not every (gender of your choice) for his/her/their/it’s self.
That’s why we need to look after EVERYBODY in the JCBA, INCLUDING the new hires.
07-18-2022, 06:18 AM
#1502
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,183
In this environment, MANAGEMENT needs 1st year pay to increase. They may bluff and say you need to negotiate for 1st year pay increases, but in this environment MANAGEMENT needs it. Don't waste negotiating capital on it as they won't have any choice but to ultimately include a competitive 1st year pay in their "last, best offer".
How would you like it if the FOs all voted, screw CA raises, they have enough, let’s give it all to FOs because they need it worse? Yeah, yeah, I know, the FOs will someday BE CAs (if they don’t lose their medical and if a recession doesn’t cause them to be furloughed or stuck as an FO for ten years or if they don’t get sufficiently PO’d to say ‘screw this, I’m putting in apps elsewhere’) but that doesn’t help them and their families today.
We have indeed met the enemy and he is us when management doesn’t have to divide and conquer us because senior pilots contemptuous of the welfare of our junior pilots do it for us. Seriously, have you no empathy? Or at a minimum, have you no shame?
07-18-2022, 06:30 AM
#1503
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Not talking about WASTING CAPITAL. You don’t WASTE CAPITAL when you use it to build pilot group unity. I’m talking about hard negotiating FOR EVERY SINGLE PILOT IN THE GROUP, not selling out anybody on any specious theory that management is going to love them and take care of them.
How would you like it if the FOs all voted, screw CA raises, they have enough, let’s give it all to FOs because they need it worse? Yeah, yeah, I know, the FOs will someday BE CAs (if they don’t lose their medical and if a recession doesn’t cause them to be furloughed or stuck as an FO for ten years or if they don’t get sufficiently PO’d to say ‘screw this, I’m putting in apps elsewhere’) but that doesn’t help them and their families today.
We have indeed met the enemy and he is us when management doesn’t have to divide and conquer us because senior pilots contemptuous of the welfare of our junior pilots do it for us. Seriously, have you no empathy? Or at a minimum, have you no shame?
How would you like it if the FOs all voted, screw CA raises, they have enough, let’s give it all to FOs because they need it worse? Yeah, yeah, I know, the FOs will someday BE CAs (if they don’t lose their medical and if a recession doesn’t cause them to be furloughed or stuck as an FO for ten years or if they don’t get sufficiently PO’d to say ‘screw this, I’m putting in apps elsewhere’) but that doesn’t help them and their families today.
We have indeed met the enemy and he is us when management doesn’t have to divide and conquer us because senior pilots contemptuous of the welfare of our junior pilots do it for us. Seriously, have you no empathy? Or at a minimum, have you no shame?
07-18-2022, 06:35 AM
#1504
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,279
you should have known better than to pull his string. He’s a one trick pony and that trick is ZOMG FERST YERR PEHHHHH!!!!
hopefully learning has occurred. It’s no different than the lessons we learned as kids with such mystical magic as “beetlegeuice” and “bloody Mary”
when excargo sees his shadow, it’s 6 more posts of first year pay.
hopefully learning has occurred. It’s no different than the lessons we learned as kids with such mystical magic as “beetlegeuice” and “bloody Mary”
when excargo sees his shadow, it’s 6 more posts of first year pay.
07-18-2022, 06:40 AM
#1505
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Not talking about WASTING CAPITAL. You don’t WASTE CAPITAL when you use it to build pilot group unity. I’m talking about hard negotiating FOR EVERY SINGLE PILOT IN THE GROUP, not selling out anybody on any specious theory that management is going to love them and take care of them.
How would you like it if the FOs all voted, screw CA raises, they have enough, let’s give it all to FOs because they need it worse? Yeah, yeah, I know, the FOs will someday BE CAs (if they don’t lose their medical and if a recession doesn’t cause them to be furloughed or stuck as an FO for ten years or if they don’t get sufficiently PO’d to say ‘screw this, I’m putting in apps elsewhere’) but that doesn’t help them and their families today.
We have indeed met the enemy and he is us when management doesn’t have to divide and conquer us because senior pilots contemptuous of the welfare of our junior pilots do it for us. Seriously, have you no empathy? Or at a minimum, have you no shame?
How would you like it if the FOs all voted, screw CA raises, they have enough, let’s give it all to FOs because they need it worse? Yeah, yeah, I know, the FOs will someday BE CAs (if they don’t lose their medical and if a recession doesn’t cause them to be furloughed or stuck as an FO for ten years or if they don’t get sufficiently PO’d to say ‘screw this, I’m putting in apps elsewhere’) but that doesn’t help them and their families today.
We have indeed met the enemy and he is us when management doesn’t have to divide and conquer us because senior pilots contemptuous of the welfare of our junior pilots do it for us. Seriously, have you no empathy? Or at a minimum, have you no shame?
As to "management loving and taking care of them", did F9 raise their first year pay outside section 6 out of "love and care"? Yes or no?
If a marriage between JB+NK happens, a joint CBA needs to be negotiated. If you want to know what JB management and JB pilots think about 1st year pay, look at JB's 1st year pay rate of ~$94 per hour, higher than Delta, United, AA and Southwest.
Hopefully that just about covers the fly-by's.
07-18-2022, 06:44 AM
#1506
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
you should have known better than to pull his string. He’s a one trick pony and that trick is ZOMG FERST YERR PEHHHHH!!!!
hopefully learning has occurred. It’s no different than the lessons we learned as kids with such mystical magic as “beetlegeuice” and “bloody Mary”
when excargo sees his shadow, it’s 6 more posts of first year pay.
hopefully learning has occurred. It’s no different than the lessons we learned as kids with such mystical magic as “beetlegeuice” and “bloody Mary”
when excargo sees his shadow, it’s 6 more posts of first year pay.
07-18-2022, 11:23 AM
#1507
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,343
Buddy of mine just took the UAL class, while waiting for the DL results. 2013 hire, 20+ years to go
07-18-2022, 11:30 AM
#1509
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,343
07-18-2022, 12:47 PM
#1510
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,183
I know I'm feeding the troll, but hopefully this will fill you up so you are no longer hungry.
As to "management loving and taking care of them", did F9 raise their first year pay outside section 6 out of "love and care"? Yes or no?
If a marriage between JB+NK happens, a joint CBA needs to be negotiated. If you want to know what JB management and JB pilots think about 1st year pay, look at JB's 1st year pay rate of ~$94 per hour, higher than Delta, United, AA and Southwest.
Hopefully that just about covers the fly-by's.
As to "management loving and taking care of them", did F9 raise their first year pay outside section 6 out of "love and care"? Yes or no?
If a marriage between JB+NK happens, a joint CBA needs to be negotiated. If you want to know what JB management and JB pilots think about 1st year pay, look at JB's 1st year pay rate of ~$94 per hour, higher than Delta, United, AA and Southwest.
Hopefully that just about covers the fly-by's.
I’m not saying we don’t have leverage - we certainly do. But the idea that the union shouldn’t look after the new hires has always been anathema to me. The union has a moral and legal responsibility to look after ALL of the group covered by the contract. Plus, it’s the right thing to do for pilot unity - you know, what a UNION is all about? Nor am I picking on you, NK, or F9 SPECIFICALLY, I’ve picked on all of those plus UPS simply because their unions hung their first years out to dry. UPS still does:
Even though it is plainly obvious from the later payrates that in the long run everyone will get decent or better compensation.
And I have never adversely commented on the B6 first year pay, simply because it is industry standard. Hopefully after the JCBA it will REMAIN industry standard and the combined pilot group will continue to support new hires appropriately.
What I object to - and I understand others have other opinions - is the attitude you expressed that we mustn’t “waste” leverage on first year pilots.
I don’t see easing the transition of our junior brethren into the pilot group to be a waste and - yeah, am probably going to express my opinion whenever someone expresses the one you expressed. So if you don’t want to see a rebuttal it’s probably best not to bring it up.
You want to consider that your version of “not feeding the troll,” that’s fine.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
