Recent Hiring Stats
06-15-2021, 07:31 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 307
From what I hear it’s common to sit in the FBO until you duty off just to goto a hotel and have a short overnight and not have time to do anything. And even if the captain is helping you’re still cleaning up after your passengers. But I’m not saying it isn’t a decent gig or that no one should like it. I personally just wouldn’t want to be tied to a company cell phone that much.
06-15-2021, 07:42 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,361
I've done the 91/135 thing - then 121 for many years - back to 91/135 during Covid.
Hands down 121, I CAN NOT WAIT to get back to the reliability of a 121 schedule. Sure it varies occasionally and sure you may not get the line you want. But you know your show times, days off are off. When you get to the hotel you're off until your next show time.
91/135 has perks, rental cars, pick your hotel, nice FBOs and expense accounts. But I only get paid by the day - so they have to call - and scheduling a family around IF they call is crazy. Fortunate to not really need the charter gig so I've been clear about unavailability for pop ups.
Obvious to each their own, but 121 is a MUCH better fit for me and my family. (not to mention pays WAY more in the long run)
Hands down 121, I CAN NOT WAIT to get back to the reliability of a 121 schedule. Sure it varies occasionally and sure you may not get the line you want. But you know your show times, days off are off. When you get to the hotel you're off until your next show time.
91/135 has perks, rental cars, pick your hotel, nice FBOs and expense accounts. But I only get paid by the day - so they have to call - and scheduling a family around IF they call is crazy. Fortunate to not really need the charter gig so I've been clear about unavailability for pop ups.
Obvious to each their own, but 121 is a MUCH better fit for me and my family. (not to mention pays WAY more in the long run)
06-15-2021, 09:04 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,283
I have never heard of another job outside major airlines that offers a 401k non-elective (DC). And especially at what majors are offering 15 to 16%.
Your retirement is losing big time not working for a major airline.
06-15-2021, 09:07 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,283
I just rolled my eyes...It wasn’t even worth trying to educate him.
06-15-2021, 10:38 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
My buddy at NetJets says it isn’t uncommon to fly a passenger or empty plane into Teterboro, then sit in the FBO just in case another passenger needs a ride, then time out and goto a hotel only to have to duty on again the next morning with a short overnight. Maybe he was just *****ing and it isn’t as common as he made it out to be but he’s a close friend of mine and I have no reason to not believe him. He said it isn’t uncommon to have numerous NetJets crews sitting around at busy GA airport fbos. Maybe things have changed.
06-15-2021, 01:41 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 307
My buddy at NetJets says it isn’t uncommon to fly a passenger or empty plane into Teterboro, then sit in the FBO just in case another passenger needs a ride, then time out and goto a hotel only to have to duty on again the next morning with a short overnight. Maybe he was just *****ing and it isn’t as common as he made it out to be but he’s a close friend of mine and I have no reason to not believe him. He said it isn’t uncommon to have numerous NetJets crews sitting around at busy GA airport fbos. Maybe things have changed.
That means the flight crews are sent from place to place just picking up and dropping people off, so they have to wait for the sales department to sell a flight. Sucks to be them. On an airplane that is owned by somebody, or working for traditional charter company, it doesn’t always work that way. We never did that a single time. They’d never sell a charter, inside a charter. Typically, the owners will use the airplane 50%-70% of the time and charter the rest.
When we took a trip, we sat until they were ready to come home. Sometimes they were day trips, and we did have to spend the day in the pilot lounge, but most of those places are nice, and have snooze rooms and courtesy cars. If we were there more than 8 hours, we got a day room. Not ideal, but not terrible. Every spring break, you could count on spending a week in Cabo in an all inclusive resort, while collecting per diem, or spend the week in Aspen. You can take your golf clubs and play while you’re there. Sometimes, with the owners, we could take our families.
You pull up on the ramp and they pull your rental car right up to the airplane, throw you things in, and head off to, what was usually, a nice hotel. When it’s time to go home, you drive the car out to the plane, and leave. We would spend a week in Europe, New Zealand, Tahiti, Ireland, Ect.....and you’re there to do whatever you want, or sometimes you be stuck in some crappy town you’ve never heard of, bored out of your mind.
Yes, as pointed out above, sometimes the passengers could be a lot to deal with, but honestly, that doesn’t happen a lot. Most of them are respectful to you and the aircraft. I can tell you, I never once had to call law enforcement to meet me on the ground, like I’ve already done so many times here. No security, no busy airports, and when you have a sit, it’s not in a crowded terminal. I got far more rest on the road doing that, than what I get here. Red eye flights happened, but were rare.
Without a doubt, I’ll have to make captain here before I even touch the pay I left, but having an actual real schedule, and the retirement make up for it. Not that we had a bad 401K, but it’s nothing like a 121 retirement.
So not all charter is like flying for a fractional. I won’t go back to charter, but a lot of it was a lot of fun. I got to see and experience a lot of things I won’t get to do here, but being able to have a life away from work is more than worth the money I temporarily left behind.
06-15-2021, 02:49 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
Fractionals operate a little differently than what I’d call a traditional charter company. A lot of charter airplanes, actually the majority (maybe), are owned by an individual or a company, and they place them on a charter certificate for tax reasons, and to offset the operating costs. Fractionals operate similar to an airline, so as a customer, the plane that drops you off won’t be the same one that picks you up.
That means the flight crews are sent from place to place just picking up and dropping people off, so they have to wait for the sales department to sell a flight. Sucks to be them. On an airplane that is owned by somebody, or working for traditional charter company, it doesn’t always work that way. We never did that a single time. They’d never sell a charter, inside a charter. Typically, the owners will use the airplane 50%-70% of the time and charter the rest.
When we took a trip, we sat until they were ready to come home. Sometimes they were day trips, and we did have to spend the day in the pilot lounge, but most of those places are nice, and have snooze rooms and courtesy cars. If we were there more than 8 hours, we got a day room. Not ideal, but not terrible. Every spring break, you could count on spending a week in Cabo in an all inclusive resort, while collecting per diem, or spend the week in Aspen. You can take your golf clubs and play while you’re there. Sometimes, with the owners, we could take our families.
You pull up on the ramp and they pull your rental car right up to the airplane, throw you things in, and head off to, what was usually, a nice hotel. When it’s time to go home, you drive the car out to the plane, and leave. We would spend a week in Europe, New Zealand, Tahiti, Ireland, Ect.....and you’re there to do whatever you want, or sometimes you be stuck in some crappy town you’ve never heard of, bored out of your mind.
Yes, as pointed out above, sometimes the passengers could be a lot to deal with, but honestly, that doesn’t happen a lot. Most of them are respectful to you and the aircraft. I can tell you, I never once had to call law enforcement to meet me on the ground, like I’ve already done so many times here. No security, no busy airports, and when you have a sit, it’s not in a crowded terminal. I got far more rest on the road doing that, than what I get here. Red eye flights happened, but were rare.
Without a doubt, I’ll have to make captain here before I even touch the pay I left, but having an actual real schedule, and the retirement make up for it. Not that we had a bad 401K, but it’s nothing like a 121 retirement.
So not all charter is like flying for a fractional. I won’t go back to charter, but a lot of it was a lot of fun. I got to see and experience a lot of things I won’t get to do here, but being able to have a life away from work is more than worth the money I temporarily left behind.
That means the flight crews are sent from place to place just picking up and dropping people off, so they have to wait for the sales department to sell a flight. Sucks to be them. On an airplane that is owned by somebody, or working for traditional charter company, it doesn’t always work that way. We never did that a single time. They’d never sell a charter, inside a charter. Typically, the owners will use the airplane 50%-70% of the time and charter the rest.
When we took a trip, we sat until they were ready to come home. Sometimes they were day trips, and we did have to spend the day in the pilot lounge, but most of those places are nice, and have snooze rooms and courtesy cars. If we were there more than 8 hours, we got a day room. Not ideal, but not terrible. Every spring break, you could count on spending a week in Cabo in an all inclusive resort, while collecting per diem, or spend the week in Aspen. You can take your golf clubs and play while you’re there. Sometimes, with the owners, we could take our families.
You pull up on the ramp and they pull your rental car right up to the airplane, throw you things in, and head off to, what was usually, a nice hotel. When it’s time to go home, you drive the car out to the plane, and leave. We would spend a week in Europe, New Zealand, Tahiti, Ireland, Ect.....and you’re there to do whatever you want, or sometimes you be stuck in some crappy town you’ve never heard of, bored out of your mind.
Yes, as pointed out above, sometimes the passengers could be a lot to deal with, but honestly, that doesn’t happen a lot. Most of them are respectful to you and the aircraft. I can tell you, I never once had to call law enforcement to meet me on the ground, like I’ve already done so many times here. No security, no busy airports, and when you have a sit, it’s not in a crowded terminal. I got far more rest on the road doing that, than what I get here. Red eye flights happened, but were rare.
Without a doubt, I’ll have to make captain here before I even touch the pay I left, but having an actual real schedule, and the retirement make up for it. Not that we had a bad 401K, but it’s nothing like a 121 retirement.
So not all charter is like flying for a fractional. I won’t go back to charter, but a lot of it was a lot of fun. I got to see and experience a lot of things I won’t get to do here, but being able to have a life away from work is more than worth the money I temporarily left behind.
Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like you had a pretty sweet job.
06-15-2021, 05:15 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,796
From what I hear it’s common to sit in the FBO until you duty off just to goto a hotel and have a short overnight and not have time to do anything. And even if the captain is helping you’re still cleaning up after your passengers. But I’m not saying it isn’t a decent gig or that no one should like it. I personally just wouldn’t want to be tied to a company cell phone that much.
I much prefer 121.
06-15-2021, 07:00 PM
#39
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Challenger 605
Posts: 22
Fractionals operate a little differently than what I’d call a traditional charter company. A lot of charter airplanes, actually the majority (maybe), are owned by an individual or a company, and they place them on a charter certificate for tax reasons, and to offset the operating costs. Fractionals operate similar to an airline, so as a customer, the plane that drops you off won’t be the same one that picks you up.
That means the flight crews are sent from place to place just picking up and dropping people off, so they have to wait for the sales department to sell a flight. Sucks to be them. On an airplane that is owned by somebody, or working for traditional charter company, it doesn’t always work that way. We never did that a single time. They’d never sell a charter, inside a charter. Typically, the owners will use the airplane 50%-70% of the time and charter the rest.
When we took a trip, we sat until they were ready to come home. Sometimes they were day trips, and we did have to spend the day in the pilot lounge, but most of those places are nice, and have snooze rooms and courtesy cars. If we were there more than 8 hours, we got a day room. Not ideal, but not terrible. Every spring break, you could count on spending a week in Cabo in an all inclusive resort, while collecting per diem, or spend the week in Aspen. You can take your golf clubs and play while you’re there. Sometimes, with the owners, we could take our families.
You pull up on the ramp and they pull your rental car right up to the airplane, throw you things in, and head off to, what was usually, a nice hotel. When it’s time to go home, you drive the car out to the plane, and leave. We would spend a week in Europe, New Zealand, Tahiti, Ireland, Ect.....and you’re there to do whatever you want, or sometimes you be stuck in some crappy town you’ve never heard of, bored out of your mind.
Yes, as pointed out above, sometimes the passengers could be a lot to deal with, but honestly, that doesn’t happen a lot. Most of them are respectful to you and the aircraft. I can tell you, I never once had to call law enforcement to meet me on the ground, like I’ve already done so many times here. No security, no busy airports, and when you have a sit, it’s not in a crowded terminal. I got far more rest on the road doing that, than what I get here. Red eye flights happened, but were rare.
Without a doubt, I’ll have to make captain here before I even touch the pay I left, but having an actual real schedule, and the retirement make up for it. Not that we had a bad 401K, but it’s nothing like a 121 retirement.
So not all charter is like flying for a fractional. I won’t go back to charter, but a lot of it was a lot of fun. I got to see and experience a lot of things I won’t get to do here, but being able to have a life away from work is more than worth the money I temporarily left behind.
That means the flight crews are sent from place to place just picking up and dropping people off, so they have to wait for the sales department to sell a flight. Sucks to be them. On an airplane that is owned by somebody, or working for traditional charter company, it doesn’t always work that way. We never did that a single time. They’d never sell a charter, inside a charter. Typically, the owners will use the airplane 50%-70% of the time and charter the rest.
When we took a trip, we sat until they were ready to come home. Sometimes they were day trips, and we did have to spend the day in the pilot lounge, but most of those places are nice, and have snooze rooms and courtesy cars. If we were there more than 8 hours, we got a day room. Not ideal, but not terrible. Every spring break, you could count on spending a week in Cabo in an all inclusive resort, while collecting per diem, or spend the week in Aspen. You can take your golf clubs and play while you’re there. Sometimes, with the owners, we could take our families.
You pull up on the ramp and they pull your rental car right up to the airplane, throw you things in, and head off to, what was usually, a nice hotel. When it’s time to go home, you drive the car out to the plane, and leave. We would spend a week in Europe, New Zealand, Tahiti, Ireland, Ect.....and you’re there to do whatever you want, or sometimes you be stuck in some crappy town you’ve never heard of, bored out of your mind.
Yes, as pointed out above, sometimes the passengers could be a lot to deal with, but honestly, that doesn’t happen a lot. Most of them are respectful to you and the aircraft. I can tell you, I never once had to call law enforcement to meet me on the ground, like I’ve already done so many times here. No security, no busy airports, and when you have a sit, it’s not in a crowded terminal. I got far more rest on the road doing that, than what I get here. Red eye flights happened, but were rare.
Without a doubt, I’ll have to make captain here before I even touch the pay I left, but having an actual real schedule, and the retirement make up for it. Not that we had a bad 401K, but it’s nothing like a 121 retirement.
So not all charter is like flying for a fractional. I won’t go back to charter, but a lot of it was a lot of fun. I got to see and experience a lot of things I won’t get to do here, but being able to have a life away from work is more than worth the money I temporarily left behind.
06-15-2021, 07:08 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 307
This is an excellent picture of a great 91/135 job. Been flying 91 for 6 years now, and my experience has been very similar. However, the unpredictable schedule is a HUGE offset for QOL, which is exactly why I’m hoping for Spirit. IMHO, schedule flexibility more than makes up for all the 91 perks that get forfeited with a move to 121. 401k is icing!
You are very correct, and good luck on getting hired, because the grass is indeed greener on the other side.
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