Excargodog

what percentage of non pilots do you believe get a 15% DC? And as I said, it isn’t a tremendous help to junior people although you can take money out early if you are willing to pay the tax penalty for early withdrawal - not a wise move generally, but certainly possible. But there is a reason that tax advantaged plans like 401Ks and 403Bs were created for retirement investments and financial advisors recommend them. By deferring taxes you can grow wealth quite a bit quicker than you would otherwise and by taking the money direct into a 401k you don’t add to your tax burden today.

But it is part of compensation and it is directly linked to your total earnings without being directly linked to your current taxation. And unlike so many companies who only match or even only partially match your contributions, most major airlines do make direct contributions.

and more important yet, it is YOUR money, not the airline managements money - at least after you are fully vested. History is full of traditional pension plans that suddenly disappeared in bankruptcy, leaving many people (including pilots) with little more of their promised retirement than they could squeeze out of the government pension guarantee guys - which was a h€|| of a lot less than their promised pensions.

Too many pilots - imho - underrate the value of these earnings, and earnings they are since they are directly related to your hours worked x rate.

69fastback

I bet you’re a joy in the cockpit, to anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

IamEssential

I bet you it is more of a lecture instead of a conversation, never pauses for the the other guy to get a word in, and then probably thinks he is a great conversationalist.

symbian simian

Yeah.
I really don't care if you call it salary, earnings, total compensation. If it is a guaranteed payment to an account in your name it's valid to compare against other companies. Everything else being equal, but the other job offers 30% vs 15% DC, do they pay the same? And if you get $10 per diem per day, and the other guy gets $100 per day, doesn't it count, "because salary"?. And if your health insurance is $400 per check, but the SWA. guy is on the free plan, it's no difference?

I will concede profit sharing ( not guaranteed), but anything in the contract the company has to pay has to be included to make it a fair comparison. I know you aren't going to spend your per diem when you are at home with the wife, and you won't spend your retirement money before you retire, but you certainly would be ****ed if they took it away. It's your money, it counts.

symbian simian

You can borrow against your DC, that subtly suggests it's worth money. When we voted on our contract did you say:"I don't care about DC because it's not really money'?

symbian simian

And yes, the guy I just flew with really liked it

69fastback

if you’re borrowing against your 401K, you’re doing it wrong. Did I say benefits don’t have value? Nope, sure didn’t. Does that make benefits salary? Nope, sure doesn’t. Salary and benefits have value. So does you car and your house, but that doesn’t make your car and house salary.

I said DC isn’t salary, and it isn’t. That’s it. Nothing more. If you classify DC (a benefit) as salary, you need a dictionary. If you are arguing anything other than a benefit is salary, you’re arguing with yourself. Benefits are not salary.

dualinput

Geez. No one is saying that benefits don’t have value. The DC and it’s conditions were a big sticking point in the last negotiation. It has huge value and was a massive improvement over what we had before. Mind you it’s still less than the industry.

What I was saying is new guys keep saying captains are making $300k. When you say making it generally means salary. And almost all captains are not making that in salary. Now if we had a 14% DC and every other airline had 0% it might be worth bringing into the equation. We could then say well we make less than the other guys but we have this DC that they don’t. That’s not true though.

But when discussing “making” the way it was originally brought up it’s meant to mean salary and we simply aren’t at $300k for even our top longevity. The other airlines are. Facts.

And on per diem if you are eating or trying to eat generally not garbage your per diem isn’t coming home. It’s for expenses. It’s a reimbursement simple as that.

CincoDeMayo

Humor is a bunch of first and second year FOs arguing what a top of the scale CA makes here.

69fastback

rational thinking