700 furloughs have not been announced 7/13/20
#51
I could see this happening. Send to many warnings out and see how the next two months play out. I would like for ALPA to stop sending us BS emails and give us some hard numbers...
For example..
Hey guys this is what the company is thinking.. Would be nice to know who all needs to start putting feelers out to support our families.
I know this crap is fluid and changes daily. Still would be nice to have some communication that wasn’t fluff.
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#52
My base chat had a rundown of JM talking to a RGS last week. He said the same things you always hear in the Town Halls, but he mentioned SB 2021 numerous times. It certainly sounded like/implied that was going to be a big bench mark, long term, what happens here regarding size.
Someone posted an article above a couple days ago. Granted it was from SeekingAlpha, but none the less:
If they really did secure $730 million in CAREs loans and we now have $1.7B or so liquid and cash burn down to $2 million a day, I just don’t see how furloughing moves the needle any significant amount, if you want these guys for end of Nov, December and SB 21.
Someone did the math on another thread here. Furloughing bottom 500 and downgrading 200 from Oct 1 to Summer 2021 only saved $40 Million. There is also costs and time to bring them back online as well.
Maybe next trip I’ll figure out the cost savings for 1, 2 and 3 month VILs for 250, 500 in each seat.
Someone posted an article above a couple days ago. Granted it was from SeekingAlpha, but none the less:
If they really did secure $730 million in CAREs loans and we now have $1.7B or so liquid and cash burn down to $2 million a day, I just don’t see how furloughing moves the needle any significant amount, if you want these guys for end of Nov, December and SB 21.
Someone did the math on another thread here. Furloughing bottom 500 and downgrading 200 from Oct 1 to Summer 2021 only saved $40 Million. There is also costs and time to bring them back online as well.
Maybe next trip I’ll figure out the cost savings for 1, 2 and 3 month VILs for 250, 500 in each seat.
#53
I think he meant furloughing half of the 700, not half of the entire list....
FWIW, 500 furloughs (has been my guess), is just shy of 20% of the list, but it only takes us to June 2019 hires (people only barely getting on 2nd year pay). It might actually go deeper for more cost savings.....
FWIW, 500 furloughs (has been my guess), is just shy of 20% of the list, but it only takes us to June 2019 hires (people only barely getting on 2nd year pay). It might actually go deeper for more cost savings.....
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,796
My base chat had a rundown of JM talking to a RGS last week. He said the same things you always hear in the Town Halls, but he mentioned SB 2021 numerous times. It certainly sounded like/implied that was going to be a big bench mark, long term, what happens here regarding size.
Someone posted an article above a couple days ago. Granted it was from SeekingAlpha, but none the less:
If they really did secure $730 million in CAREs loans and we now have $1.7B or so liquid and cash burn down to $2 million a day, I just don’t see how furloughing moves the needle any significant amount, if you want these guys for end of Nov, December and SB 21.
Someone did the math on another thread here. Furloughing bottom 500 and downgrading 200 from Oct 1 to Summer 2021 only saved $40 Million. There is also costs and time to bring them back online as well.
Maybe next trip I’ll figure out the cost savings for 1, 2 and 3 month VILs for 250, 500 in each seat.
Someone posted an article above a couple days ago. Granted it was from SeekingAlpha, but none the less:
If they really did secure $730 million in CAREs loans and we now have $1.7B or so liquid and cash burn down to $2 million a day, I just don’t see how furloughing moves the needle any significant amount, if you want these guys for end of Nov, December and SB 21.
Someone did the math on another thread here. Furloughing bottom 500 and downgrading 200 from Oct 1 to Summer 2021 only saved $40 Million. There is also costs and time to bring them back online as well.
Maybe next trip I’ll figure out the cost savings for 1, 2 and 3 month VILs for 250, 500 in each seat.
So 3 months at 250 VILs in still about 1 day of savings. 500 for 3 months is a little over two days. It’s basically bringing a cork to the Titanic’s damage control party. It’s not nothing, but it’s close. That number gets larger as other crew and staff see their pay reduced or are shed, but it’s just not much of a difference maker.
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,256
using the numbers printed in the media, the Big-3 numbers are basically 16-18% of the total pilot force got WARN notices.
whether that translates into actual furloughs? Don't know. How many pilots exist at Spirit? 2600?
"700" seems high. 18% of 2600 is 468. Round it to 500 for nice even number.
The Big-3 really don't "save" any money either by furloughing junior people. But what do I know.
I say 700 is too high and IF Spirit furloughs, we see voluntary leaves/etc. offered first. Then maybe 500 ballpark, MAYBE.
The Big-3 have huge costs with multi-aircraft fleets, huge footprints, infrastructure costs, etc. that Spirit does not have. Big-3 sent WARN notices to 18% of their Pilot group, with those costs in the backdrop.
my 2 cents
whether that translates into actual furloughs? Don't know. How many pilots exist at Spirit? 2600?
"700" seems high. 18% of 2600 is 468. Round it to 500 for nice even number.
The Big-3 really don't "save" any money either by furloughing junior people. But what do I know.
I say 700 is too high and IF Spirit furloughs, we see voluntary leaves/etc. offered first. Then maybe 500 ballpark, MAYBE.
The Big-3 have huge costs with multi-aircraft fleets, huge footprints, infrastructure costs, etc. that Spirit does not have. Big-3 sent WARN notices to 18% of their Pilot group, with those costs in the backdrop.
my 2 cents
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 498
I’m surprised they haven’t mentioned long term VILs. With a lot of schools going to the hybrid model, there will need to be someone at home. Feel like quite a few people would take it and a good way to cut down payroll for senior CA’s. A CA going from 72hrs to 50hrs is way more than what a year one FO makes at guarantee and almost what a year 2 FO makes.
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 612
I’m surprised they haven’t mentioned long term VILs. With a lot of schools going to the hybrid model, there will need to be someone at home. Feel like quite a few people would take it and a good way to cut down payroll for senior CA’s. A CA going from 72hrs to 50hrs is way more than what a year one FO makes at guarantee and almost what a year 2 FO makes.
#60
I think he meant furloughing half of the 700, not half of the entire list....
FWIW, 500 furloughs (has been my guess), is just shy of 20% of the list, but it only takes us to June 2019 hires (people only barely getting on 2nd year pay). It might actually go deeper for more cost savings.....
FWIW, 500 furloughs (has been my guess), is just shy of 20% of the list, but it only takes us to June 2019 hires (people only barely getting on 2nd year pay). It might actually go deeper for more cost savings.....
With UA and DAL pulling back, gates will be open everywhere. The legal fight over the old SWA gates at EWR is probably now moot.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...t-departs.aspx
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...t-departs.aspx
What I imagine NK management wants to do is lead turn the recovery to capture many of those open gates and use NKs lower CASM to increase domestic market share. At least that seems to be SWA management’s intention with their single type fleet. How many pilots they are going to need to implement that strategy and how soon - I imagine - they are wondering themselves. If they play their cards right their greater agility can win the post COVID expansion. Exactly how to play those cards...now THAT is the question.
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