Life at Spirit
10-02-2022, 12:48 PM
#771
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 54
Drop to Zero
I have a couple questions about Spirit's "drop to zero" policy.
I understand that Republic, Delta, FedEx, and maybe a couple others have this but that it's more limited elsewhere; what makes it great at Spirit is that they are contractually obligated to keep 75%(?) of the grid green.
How frequently can someone actually drop to zero at Spirit? Could someone realistically work at Spirit in a kind of part-time capacity? Like, could I do one 3-day trip per month? Or fly once or twice every couple months? On a routine basis? Is flying 6-12 trips per year realistic, or is there an expectation that you execute a normal month most months?
Additionally, does anyone have any insights on what might happen to "drop to zero" if/when the jetBlue merger goes through? I've heard that the Spirit and jetBlue pilot groups both want it to stay, but I was unsure of how realistic of an expectation that is.
Thanks for the insights. Really appreciate this discussion.
I understand that Republic, Delta, FedEx, and maybe a couple others have this but that it's more limited elsewhere; what makes it great at Spirit is that they are contractually obligated to keep 75%(?) of the grid green.
How frequently can someone actually drop to zero at Spirit? Could someone realistically work at Spirit in a kind of part-time capacity? Like, could I do one 3-day trip per month? Or fly once or twice every couple months? On a routine basis? Is flying 6-12 trips per year realistic, or is there an expectation that you execute a normal month most months?
Additionally, does anyone have any insights on what might happen to "drop to zero" if/when the jetBlue merger goes through? I've heard that the Spirit and jetBlue pilot groups both want it to stay, but I was unsure of how realistic of an expectation that is.
Thanks for the insights. Really appreciate this discussion.
10-02-2022, 01:15 PM
#772
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
I have a couple questions about Spirit's "drop to zero" policy.
I understand that Republic, Delta, FedEx, and maybe a couple others have this but that it's more limited elsewhere; what makes it great at Spirit is that they are contractually obligated to keep 75%(?) of the grid green.
How frequently can someone actually drop to zero at Spirit? Could someone realistically work at Spirit in a kind of part-time capacity? Like, could I do one 3-day trip per month? Or fly once or twice every couple months? On a routine basis? Is flying 6-12 trips per year realistic, or is there an expectation that you execute a normal month most months?
Additionally, does anyone have any insights on what might happen to "drop to zero" if/when the jetBlue merger goes through? I've heard that the Spirit and jetBlue pilot groups both want it to stay, but I was unsure of how realistic of an expectation that is.
Thanks for the insights. Really appreciate this discussion.
I understand that Republic, Delta, FedEx, and maybe a couple others have this but that it's more limited elsewhere; what makes it great at Spirit is that they are contractually obligated to keep 75%(?) of the grid green.
How frequently can someone actually drop to zero at Spirit? Could someone realistically work at Spirit in a kind of part-time capacity? Like, could I do one 3-day trip per month? Or fly once or twice every couple months? On a routine basis? Is flying 6-12 trips per year realistic, or is there an expectation that you execute a normal month most months?
Additionally, does anyone have any insights on what might happen to "drop to zero" if/when the jetBlue merger goes through? I've heard that the Spirit and jetBlue pilot groups both want it to stay, but I was unsure of how realistic of an expectation that is.
Thanks for the insights. Really appreciate this discussion.
As far as the expectation you work a certain amount, they can suck a ….. This is our benefit and we can drop to zero so any expectations they might have, it doesn’t exist in reality. Again, pilots determine the grid with our drops once the month opens.
Will this remain in the merger? I’ll say this, the current NC will die on the hill to protect red/green and drop to zero. As the NC said last week, any mention of losing this with our own management (they haven’t asked) is a “non starter”. I would imagine the Jblue NC will want this provision carried over in the JCBA so I expect this to be a hard fought provision to bring over.
Dropping to zero is in my opinion, the best benefit we have. But since we are short on the FO side, many FOs are dropping during the start of the bidding/award process and that’s leaving a lot of red on the FO side.
10-02-2022, 03:07 PM
#774
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,361
The company sets a limit on how many reserves that must be available. If the available reserves is below , it goes red. Above, it goes green. 75% has to be green when OT drops. You can drop on green, all the way to 0.
10-02-2022, 03:34 PM
#775
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
From the CBA, also protected by our “Nic award” arbitration
Required daily minimum reserve coverage will be es-tablished by the Company based on its experience as to the number of required reserve pilots. The required daily minimum reserve coverage may be different for a given day and vary across category, and domicile. Electronic Shift Trade will be programmed to approve a net credit loss transaction on a “green day,” i.e., a day with reserve coverage at or above the required minimum reserve cov-erage. A “red day” is a day when reserve coverage is be-low the required minimum reserve coverage. Electronic Shift Trade will be programmed to approve a trade with open time that allows a pilot to add a trip on a red day and simultaneously drop a trip on a red day that, relative to the required minimum reserve coverage threshold, has better reserve coverage. At the end of each quarter, the Association will review the amount of red days in which trades/drops were not allowed due to coverage issues. This “snapshot” of red days is taken after the publication of the final schedule but before the opening of the initial open time bid. If the number of red days in a bid month exceeds 25 percent in any one category/ domicile, the Company will decrease the minimum required reserve coverage threshold to allow for the approval of a greater number of net credit loss transactions.
Required daily minimum reserve coverage will be es-tablished by the Company based on its experience as to the number of required reserve pilots. The required daily minimum reserve coverage may be different for a given day and vary across category, and domicile. Electronic Shift Trade will be programmed to approve a net credit loss transaction on a “green day,” i.e., a day with reserve coverage at or above the required minimum reserve cov-erage. A “red day” is a day when reserve coverage is be-low the required minimum reserve coverage. Electronic Shift Trade will be programmed to approve a trade with open time that allows a pilot to add a trip on a red day and simultaneously drop a trip on a red day that, relative to the required minimum reserve coverage threshold, has better reserve coverage. At the end of each quarter, the Association will review the amount of red days in which trades/drops were not allowed due to coverage issues. This “snapshot” of red days is taken after the publication of the final schedule but before the opening of the initial open time bid. If the number of red days in a bid month exceeds 25 percent in any one category/ domicile, the Company will decrease the minimum required reserve coverage threshold to allow for the approval of a greater number of net credit loss transactions.
10-04-2022, 12:32 PM
#776
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 229
I’m not DTW or ORD based so I can’t give you give a breakdown of % trip length and commutability (mind the definition of commutability). Both bases seem to be growing steadily although ORD had some stagnation in the past. About 70% of the pilots hold a line on average. This number can grow to 75% during summer and shrink to 65% or even less at FL bases during slow months. System wide the company has been leaning more towards 4-day trips (post covid). Quality of lines and trips depends on your seniority and obviously on your definition of quality (credit, legs per day, red eyes, etc). In my personal opinion LAS has the worst trips due to the relative large amount of redeyes. The rest of the bases seem to cover a good portion of our whole domestic network one way or another.
Is it still heavily 4 day trips out of there? Also what are the usual trip locations out of there? Just wondering if ATL or FLL go to better locations. I searched around looking for answers on this but did not see anything so apologize in advance if I missed it somewhere.
10-04-2022, 07:02 PM
#777
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 54
75% green is at a specific snap shot done during the bidding process. It does not need to remain 75% through the month. This has been arbitrated and the arbitrator best compared it to the pilots regulating what stays red and what stays green based on demand for drops. If guys know we are short staffed and want to drop, they will drop until the days are red and they will mainly remain red while guys wait for premium. So as a new FO, forget about green days and working part time. As a CA in most bases, yes you can drop pretty much anything.
As far as the expectation you work a certain amount, they can suck a ….. This is our benefit and we can drop to zero so any expectations they might have, it doesn’t exist in reality. Again, pilots determine the grid with our drops once the month opens.
Will this remain in the merger? I’ll say this, the current NC will die on the hill to protect red/green and drop to zero. As the NC said last week, any mention of losing this with our own management (they haven’t asked) is a “non starter”. I would imagine the Jblue NC will want this provision carried over in the JCBA so I expect this to be a hard fought provision to bring over.
Dropping to zero is in my opinion, the best benefit we have. But since we are short on the FO side, many FOs are dropping during the start of the bidding/award process and that’s leaving a lot of red on the FO side.
As far as the expectation you work a certain amount, they can suck a ….. This is our benefit and we can drop to zero so any expectations they might have, it doesn’t exist in reality. Again, pilots determine the grid with our drops once the month opens.
Will this remain in the merger? I’ll say this, the current NC will die on the hill to protect red/green and drop to zero. As the NC said last week, any mention of losing this with our own management (they haven’t asked) is a “non starter”. I would imagine the Jblue NC will want this provision carried over in the JCBA so I expect this to be a hard fought provision to bring over.
Dropping to zero is in my opinion, the best benefit we have. But since we are short on the FO side, many FOs are dropping during the start of the bidding/award process and that’s leaving a lot of red on the FO side.
10-04-2022, 07:51 PM
#778
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 30
Interesting - thank you. So does that mean that more senior FOs get first "dibs" at dropping trips? When exactly in the bidding process is the "snapshot" for the 75% green? Doesn't everyone have the ability to drop trips equally when the bidding starts? What is the lowest number of days a new FO could work? I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what the process is to actually drop trips and why it is so different for a CA in most bases vs for a new FO..?
The more senior you are (either fo or ca) the more likely you are to be able to drop in IOT, since IOT is done in seniority order. Once DOT starts it’s first come first served as far as dropping (or swapping/adding/etc). The reason it’s easier for Ca to drop right now is because we are short on fo’s not ca’s.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
10-07-2022, 03:38 AM
#780
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 549
GDOs are part of every reserve line; there's no time limit that has to be hit. Maybe you're confusing these for vacation? Do you participate in our pilot mentor program (chat group)? Those guys/gals are on top of any type of request like this. Asking a bunch of yahoos on an anonymous forum might get you a God-knows-what answer (que Halon).
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
downinthegroove
Regional
2
06-03-2008 05:55 PM
