NO Vote Reality?!
02-05-2018, 06:33 AM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: FLL
Posts: 48
02-05-2018, 07:46 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
A lot of the vague stuff like the Dh seats, is vague because its freebie items that are nice things to have. Not really a reason to vote no IMO.
I cant see complaining abut long call reserve rules when it is something we dont even have right now.
LTD premiums are standard.
As far as retro, nobody ever gets “full” retro. This was explained on one of the conference calls. If you are expecting full retro you will never get what you want.
I think they said full retro at other airlines could mean (examples):
1) 10% retro pay back fully to amendable date - full retro
2) 100% full pay back 6 months - full retro
Dont think we can drag this out another year and get 3-4 years of back pay and have that be your reasoning to justify all the continueing pay loss for a No vote because it will not happen.
If we all had to pull out our wallets every day and hand over a few hundred dollar bills to Bendo I wonder if that would make this lost money seem more real.
I cant see complaining abut long call reserve rules when it is something we dont even have right now.
LTD premiums are standard.
As far as retro, nobody ever gets “full” retro. This was explained on one of the conference calls. If you are expecting full retro you will never get what you want.
I think they said full retro at other airlines could mean (examples):
1) 10% retro pay back fully to amendable date - full retro
2) 100% full pay back 6 months - full retro
Dont think we can drag this out another year and get 3-4 years of back pay and have that be your reasoning to justify all the continueing pay loss for a No vote because it will not happen.
If we all had to pull out our wallets every day and hand over a few hundred dollar bills to Bendo I wonder if that would make this lost money seem more real.
I agree with you on most of your points, it’s a lot of money to leave on the table to just hope for a better deal 6 months from now...
Having said that, I just don’t think we should be giving as much as we have for as little as they are giving us in return. The pay rates alone would benefit me greatly as I’m a “fly your schedule and go home” kind of guy. What’s pushing me to a No is when you add up all the small things (sit around airport if they may need you?...) add up when we are getting below standard pay and retirement. I get that the company wants/needs more flexibility and wants to utilize us more efficiently but don’t take all of our protections away and offer me pay and retirement that’s below our peers.
Meet me somewhere in the middle and I’d probably vote yes but the scheduling section is a dumpster fire and that section alone is probably the most important one with regards to QOL. Tighten than up, add some protections, and I’d probably be ok with it.
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02-05-2018, 09:42 AM
#44
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 28
I agree with you on most of your points, it’s a lot of money to leave on the table to just hope for a better deal 6 months from now...
Having said that, I just don’t think we should be giving as much as we have for as little as they are giving us in return. The pay rates alone would benefit me greatly as I’m a “fly your schedule and go home” kind of guy. What’s pushing me to a No is when you add up all the small things (sit around airport if they may need you?...) add up when we are getting below standard pay and retirement. I get that the company wants/needs more flexibility and wants to utilize us more efficiently but don’t take all of our protections away and offer me pay and retirement that’s below our peers.
Meet me somewhere in the middle and I’d probably vote yes but the scheduling section is a dumpster fire and that section alone is probably the most important one with regards to QOL. Tighten than up, add some protections, and I’d probably be ok with it.
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Having said that, I just don’t think we should be giving as much as we have for as little as they are giving us in return. The pay rates alone would benefit me greatly as I’m a “fly your schedule and go home” kind of guy. What’s pushing me to a No is when you add up all the small things (sit around airport if they may need you?...) add up when we are getting below standard pay and retirement. I get that the company wants/needs more flexibility and wants to utilize us more efficiently but don’t take all of our protections away and offer me pay and retirement that’s below our peers.
Meet me somewhere in the middle and I’d probably vote yes but the scheduling section is a dumpster fire and that section alone is probably the most important one with regards to QOL. Tighten than up, add some protections, and I’d probably be ok with it.
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With the NMB focusing on F9 & JB, do you really think this mgmt will negotiate out of mediation? They have no need to. They will use their usual Credit *****s and stumble through the summer and if they dont, guess what? We are still under the TRO, we are F-d because of that dumb Chokers website.
Also, if it took 3 years to get this underwhelming language, what do you expect in another 12-24 months?, lol. Maybe you'll see somewhat tighter language (that WILL NO DOUBT PROBABLY HAVE TO BE ARBITRATED ANYWAY) and maybe a $5.00/hr increase. All for what? to be that far behind and start the clock for the next CBA that much later?
You want to vote no to enjoy your RSV drops now?, fine, go ahead I completely understand but don't expect things to remain the same around here. The company has a Plan B if this thing fails and I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it includes a TA2 that will make you jump for joy.
That being said, nobody should vote out of fear. Take all the EMOTION out of it, think pragmatically, go to the roadshows, vote accordingly and OWN YOUR VOTE.
02-05-2018, 10:17 AM
#45
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 23
6 year Capt.
But I have to ask......
If this contract gets voted down, then what?????
*Total recall of LEC, MEC, NC reps?
*Zero Symathy From NMB, ALPA?
*Flying Public, Investors, Media?
How long will it take, what if a merger happens sooner or later, and we still have current scope?
How realistic are NO voters that we will get $10/15 an hour more, NO PBS, 15% 401K DOS, Profit Sharing etc in 2+ years, Full Retro, same work rules?
What would you do if you were ON the NC? Guys complain but have no ideas to change. What are you objective realistic, goals. Truly?
Also, what is likely hood we will be Spirit (as we know it) in 5-8 years or LESS????
Fire away, CarryOn.......
But I have to ask......
If this contract gets voted down, then what?????
*Total recall of LEC, MEC, NC reps?
*Zero Symathy From NMB, ALPA?
*Flying Public, Investors, Media?
How long will it take, what if a merger happens sooner or later, and we still have current scope?
How realistic are NO voters that we will get $10/15 an hour more, NO PBS, 15% 401K DOS, Profit Sharing etc in 2+ years, Full Retro, same work rules?
What would you do if you were ON the NC? Guys complain but have no ideas to change. What are you objective realistic, goals. Truly?
Also, what is likely hood we will be Spirit (as we know it) in 5-8 years or LESS????
Fire away, CarryOn.......
02-05-2018, 10:53 AM
#47
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 19
you know, if I knew for sure we would come back in 6 months It may sway my decision, I dont know but if this thing fails by a small margin, the NMB will absolutely put us on the back burner and claim we have no idea what we want. Offered large "enough" raises and its still voted down. The NMB doesnt realy care that our QOL is diminished etc.
With the NMB focusing on F9 & JB, do you really think this mgmt will negotiate out of mediation? They have no need to. They will use their usual Credit *****s and stumble through the summer and if they dont, guess what? We are still under the TRO, we are F-d because of that dumb Chokers website.
Also, if it took 3 years to get this underwhelming language, what do you expect in another 12-24 months?, lol. Maybe you'll see somewhat tighter language (that WILL NO DOUBT PROBABLY HAVE TO BE ARBITRATED ANYWAY) and maybe a $5.00/hr increase. All for what? to be that far behind and start the clock for the next CBA that much later?
You want to vote no to enjoy your RSV drops now?, fine, go ahead I completely understand but don't expect things to remain the same around here. The company has a Plan B if this thing fails and I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it includes a TA2 that will make you jump for joy.
That being said, nobody should vote out of fear. Take all the EMOTION out of it, think pragmatically, go to the roadshows, vote accordingly and OWN YOUR VOTE.
With the NMB focusing on F9 & JB, do you really think this mgmt will negotiate out of mediation? They have no need to. They will use their usual Credit *****s and stumble through the summer and if they dont, guess what? We are still under the TRO, we are F-d because of that dumb Chokers website.
Also, if it took 3 years to get this underwhelming language, what do you expect in another 12-24 months?, lol. Maybe you'll see somewhat tighter language (that WILL NO DOUBT PROBABLY HAVE TO BE ARBITRATED ANYWAY) and maybe a $5.00/hr increase. All for what? to be that far behind and start the clock for the next CBA that much later?
You want to vote no to enjoy your RSV drops now?, fine, go ahead I completely understand but don't expect things to remain the same around here. The company has a Plan B if this thing fails and I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it includes a TA2 that will make you jump for joy.
That being said, nobody should vote out of fear. Take all the EMOTION out of it, think pragmatically, go to the roadshows, vote accordingly and OWN YOUR VOTE.
And then vote the way YOU want and what's right for YOU and your family.
02-05-2018, 11:14 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 532
you know, if I knew for sure we would come back in 6 months It may sway my decision, I dont know but if this thing fails by a small margin, the NMB will absolutely put us on the back burner and claim we have no idea what we want. Offered large "enough" raises and its still voted down. The NMB doesnt realy care that our QOL is diminished etc.
With the NMB focusing on F9 & JB, do you really think this mgmt will negotiate out of mediation? They have no need to. They will use their usual Credit *****s and stumble through the summer and if they dont, guess what? We are still under the TRO, we are F-d because of that dumb Chokers website.
Also, if it took 3 years to get this underwhelming language, what do you expect in another 12-24 months?, lol. Maybe you'll see somewhat tighter language (that WILL NO DOUBT PROBABLY HAVE TO BE ARBITRATED ANYWAY) and maybe a $5.00/hr increase. All for what? to be that far behind and start the clock for the next CBA that much later?
You want to vote no to enjoy your RSV drops now?, fine, go ahead I completely understand but don't expect things to remain the same around here. The company has a Plan B if this thing fails and I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it includes a TA2 that will make you jump for joy.
That being said, nobody should vote out of fear. Take all the EMOTION out of it, think pragmatically, go to the roadshows, vote accordingly and OWN YOUR VOTE.
With the NMB focusing on F9 & JB, do you really think this mgmt will negotiate out of mediation? They have no need to. They will use their usual Credit *****s and stumble through the summer and if they dont, guess what? We are still under the TRO, we are F-d because of that dumb Chokers website.
Also, if it took 3 years to get this underwhelming language, what do you expect in another 12-24 months?, lol. Maybe you'll see somewhat tighter language (that WILL NO DOUBT PROBABLY HAVE TO BE ARBITRATED ANYWAY) and maybe a $5.00/hr increase. All for what? to be that far behind and start the clock for the next CBA that much later?
You want to vote no to enjoy your RSV drops now?, fine, go ahead I completely understand but don't expect things to remain the same around here. The company has a Plan B if this thing fails and I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it includes a TA2 that will make you jump for joy.
That being said, nobody should vote out of fear. Take all the EMOTION out of it, think pragmatically, go to the roadshows, vote accordingly and OWN YOUR VOTE.
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