View Poll Results: Aye or Nay?
Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll
Aye or Nay??
02-04-2018, 04:44 PM
#63
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 106
02-04-2018, 05:13 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 206
02-04-2018, 08:57 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: Da Bus, Left
Posts: 1,564
Again, done intentionally. Own your vote. If you can’t publicly rationalize your vote with an anonymous screen name, I wonder how that cockpit conversation will go.... If you feel this iTA is the best route forward for you, vote as such.
02-04-2018, 09:33 PM
#67
captain scarlet
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Who needs to know?
Posts: 170
I understand we are not a Legacy airline in any way, my significant other is an Airbus Pilot at DAL. We already know they get paid more than us. Here are SOME of Delta's QOL and soft pay off the top of my head:
- 12 hour or longer layover must be in metropolitan area
- Red / Green system is the same...drop / trade / swap as much as you want, just like us. Do not have to maintain a certain number of hours for insurance etc.
- Green slip for line holder (200%) (same as junior assignment, but goes from top of list to bottom)
- Health insurance almost as good, same price for cadillac plan, but has a $350.00 deductible per person...United healthcare as well. DAL has option for HSA gold, which is nearly the same as our diamond plan.
- Sick time - 240 hours after 5 years of service. Every year in June each pilot starts with 240 hours. After 100 hours used you need a note from your doctor. First-year pilots get 75 hours and it gradually goes up to 240 by end of year 5.
-STD - half of last 6 months pay with option to get full pay from Delta Pilot Medical Plan for up to 2 years in a career. Most guys do not use this if they have been at DAL for more than 5 years because they have 240 hours of sick time, which covers about 3 months.
-LTD - Half pay until your 65
- "rolling thunder for reserves" - get green slip (aka junior assigned to spirit pilots) They pay 100 percent on top guarantee and drop your next reserve day. If you dont have another reserve day in the month, you get a "payback day" which will drop a day of a trip with pay later on or add to vacation
Short call / Long call reserve. - Long call 12 hour call out with 24 hours on call. Seniority Order Can be converted to short call up to 6 times per month without additional pay, with 1 flight hour paid after 6. (it hardly goes above 6)
Rescheduling / Rerouted - paid at 200%
Min day - 5.15 hours guaranteed.
International override - 6.50 captain / 4.50 FO Yes that includes any time you land in another country
Profit Sharing every valentines day (Feb 14th) It is not a bonus, it is another paycheck, taxed as such. International FOs and Captains average $50,000 net
New hires get insurance the day they start. Pay during training approx $3000 per month. They have to buy a hotel / crashpad, but have option to go home on weekends and most do. Training is very low stress. Taking notes is not needed and discouraged.
AQP - training is much, much, much easier. Airbus - 8 limitations, 4 memory items. Type checkride is a LOFT (LOE) from right seat, the only time the FO flys the airplane is when it is transferred to him, so that the Captain can troubleshoot.
Option to go to different fleets but upgrade is same time, if not quicker, as Spirit on the Airbus. Max days worked on a wide body a month - 12 days
Again, I get it, we are not a legacy and do not expect to get as much as them, but what do you guys think? Is this proposed TA even comparable? Are we selling our souls to the devil for the pay? Can we get both Pay and QOL if we vote no? Or can we get something in between?
My opinion: The new pay might be doable, but the QOL needs to be at least what it was, because QOL with the current TA is industry standard, not industry leading.
- 12 hour or longer layover must be in metropolitan area
- Red / Green system is the same...drop / trade / swap as much as you want, just like us. Do not have to maintain a certain number of hours for insurance etc.
- Green slip for line holder (200%) (same as junior assignment, but goes from top of list to bottom)
- Health insurance almost as good, same price for cadillac plan, but has a $350.00 deductible per person...United healthcare as well. DAL has option for HSA gold, which is nearly the same as our diamond plan.
- Sick time - 240 hours after 5 years of service. Every year in June each pilot starts with 240 hours. After 100 hours used you need a note from your doctor. First-year pilots get 75 hours and it gradually goes up to 240 by end of year 5.
-STD - half of last 6 months pay with option to get full pay from Delta Pilot Medical Plan for up to 2 years in a career. Most guys do not use this if they have been at DAL for more than 5 years because they have 240 hours of sick time, which covers about 3 months.
-LTD - Half pay until your 65
- "rolling thunder for reserves" - get green slip (aka junior assigned to spirit pilots) They pay 100 percent on top guarantee and drop your next reserve day. If you dont have another reserve day in the month, you get a "payback day" which will drop a day of a trip with pay later on or add to vacation
Short call / Long call reserve. - Long call 12 hour call out with 24 hours on call. Seniority Order Can be converted to short call up to 6 times per month without additional pay, with 1 flight hour paid after 6. (it hardly goes above 6)
Rescheduling / Rerouted - paid at 200%
Min day - 5.15 hours guaranteed.
International override - 6.50 captain / 4.50 FO Yes that includes any time you land in another country
Profit Sharing every valentines day (Feb 14th) It is not a bonus, it is another paycheck, taxed as such. International FOs and Captains average $50,000 net
New hires get insurance the day they start. Pay during training approx $3000 per month. They have to buy a hotel / crashpad, but have option to go home on weekends and most do. Training is very low stress. Taking notes is not needed and discouraged.
AQP - training is much, much, much easier. Airbus - 8 limitations, 4 memory items. Type checkride is a LOFT (LOE) from right seat, the only time the FO flys the airplane is when it is transferred to him, so that the Captain can troubleshoot.
Option to go to different fleets but upgrade is same time, if not quicker, as Spirit on the Airbus. Max days worked on a wide body a month - 12 days
Again, I get it, we are not a legacy and do not expect to get as much as them, but what do you guys think? Is this proposed TA even comparable? Are we selling our souls to the devil for the pay? Can we get both Pay and QOL if we vote no? Or can we get something in between?
My opinion: The new pay might be doable, but the QOL needs to be at least what it was, because QOL with the current TA is industry standard, not industry leading.
The info presented is eyeopening and surprisingly no one commented.
I agree that we are selling out if this TA passes.
Not to mention the obvious, that DAL leaders have respect for their pilots and do not have an agenda to diminish them for monetary gains.
Keep dreaming if you think the rescheduling or otherwise "open season" relief given will not be the norm rather than the exception.
If past practice has not convinced the Yes voters, that this company plays dirty and will abuse all available provisions to the maximum extend and beyond, what will?
02-04-2018, 09:42 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: Yellow Bus
Posts: 355
I think the DFWLEC guy got it right.
I will probably vote Yes
I wanted to believe Juri when he said this place would be "the next Southwest", but unfortunately that's just not gonna happen. This isn't a legacy level contract because Spirit isn't a top tier carrier, however bad we may want it to be. This isn't a secret. The mediator, our management, other pilots, our passengers, and even our friends and family all know this. That's no reflection on us as individuals or pilots, but the reality of this company's position in the airline industry. Are we really that surprised that we didn't get a cut and paste of Delta's contract?
I understand the argument that we fly the same aircraft on the same routes and we tried that line, unfortunately no one cared.
Section 25 is terrible.
No reserve drops is a serious loss as well.
However, my biggest priorities in this negotiation were improved scope, reasonable ltd, compensation, and dc retirement. None of this stuff is industry leading, but it's all in this deal.
We can drag this out and keep trying to convince everyone we are United, or take a nice raise now along with improved benefits and move on. If we vote no, I don't see us getting back the monetary difference no matter how long a new offer takes.
If this passes, yes we are going to take a beating during irops but we will be making good money at the same time. At the end of the day I work here for pay, not for the great overnights. And no matter how good a contract we get, not all the Delta pilots are going to nod at you in the hallway.
I will vote what is best for my family, and will respect everyone else whatever they decide.
I will probably vote Yes
I wanted to believe Juri when he said this place would be "the next Southwest", but unfortunately that's just not gonna happen. This isn't a legacy level contract because Spirit isn't a top tier carrier, however bad we may want it to be. This isn't a secret. The mediator, our management, other pilots, our passengers, and even our friends and family all know this. That's no reflection on us as individuals or pilots, but the reality of this company's position in the airline industry. Are we really that surprised that we didn't get a cut and paste of Delta's contract?
I understand the argument that we fly the same aircraft on the same routes and we tried that line, unfortunately no one cared.
Section 25 is terrible.
No reserve drops is a serious loss as well.
However, my biggest priorities in this negotiation were improved scope, reasonable ltd, compensation, and dc retirement. None of this stuff is industry leading, but it's all in this deal.
We can drag this out and keep trying to convince everyone we are United, or take a nice raise now along with improved benefits and move on. If we vote no, I don't see us getting back the monetary difference no matter how long a new offer takes.
If this passes, yes we are going to take a beating during irops but we will be making good money at the same time. At the end of the day I work here for pay, not for the great overnights. And no matter how good a contract we get, not all the Delta pilots are going to nod at you in the hallway.
I will vote what is best for my family, and will respect everyone else whatever they decide.
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