WHACKMASTER

That’s exactly what happened with us at SWA. The first TA got voted down and the second one was much improved. Hang in there Spirit Pilots. You’ve got them by the balls. Don’t blow your leverage. The economy is humming and new airplanes are on order. They’ll come back to the table with something better.

Conceding to PBS and lost of vacation conflict is HUGE. I’m dumbfounded that this is even being considered by you guys considering how much of a concession those are.

Qotsaautopilot

1.E.4

Acquisition without operational merger.

Last sentence of the paragraph

Lincoln Osiris

Right, but then doesn’t 1.E.5 cover that?

5. The Company will not assign or allocate flying or aircraft to the carriers it controls for the purpose of securing contractual relief or concessions (i.e. no “whipsawing”).

Qotsaautopilot

If that’s the case why does 1.E.4 exist?

Why does 1.E exist at all? If the company acquires another airline why should there be a single reason that they should not be operationally merged? There is no reason except to screw the pilots

Lincoln Osiris

How would Spirit pilots get screwed if spirit decided to go out and buy another airline? 1.E.3 provides job security for us if that were to happen. Do you not think think the MEC and ALPA lawyers went over every single word in this? This stuff was not just pulled out of thin air. But as to why 1.E exsists at all? That would be a better question for an ALPA lawyer or at one of the road shows.

LoudFastRules

RE: Lessons from the past: Yes, NWA absolutely broke their Mechanics' union by training and staging hundreds of scab strike-breakers. But the real slime-icing on the scab-filled cake is that those scabs needed to be housed in hotels for weeks during their scab training. NWA racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hotel fees with their scab army. When those bills came due, NWA declared BK and stiffed the hotels, giving them virtually nothing.

I didn't realize your guy was involved with that. Now your AIP makes more sense.

Qotsaautopilot

No good can come to the pilots from Spirit owning two SEPARATE airlines. None. Protecting your job at the time of the buy is one thing but I guarantee you that there is a shiit storm to follow that day. And the fact that buying a foreign or regional carrier releases them from all protection should be a red flag.

I think ALPA went through this and figured it was the best they could get with our mediator without a no vote. They wrote our current language and it’s worse so what’s that tell you.

Qotsaautopilot

This guy is the antithesis of labor friendly. He tries to think of ways to screw hard working families to enrich himself.

Lincoln Osiris

Wait releases who from all protections? If they were to buy a foreign carrier we would still be covered under E 2 & 3.

Qotsaautopilot

Find an example where a company owning and operating two or more separate airlines has ended well for the pilots.

I come here to make money and nothing else. I was expecting the work rule concessions though not as bad. In exchange for them I expected industry standard pay not current Jetblue. I expected own occupation LTD. I expected DC retirement. we got it although the ratcheting up and 15%vs16% just to spite us infuriates me. I also expected rock solid scope with clear merger protections, codesharing restrictions, and outsourcing possibilities eliminated. This did not happen. It’s better than our current scope but tha doesn’t really matter if they exploit it. If they exploit one hole or twelve you’re still screwed and your contract means nothing.

If you made some financial decisions that mean you need this money yesterday go ahead and just vote yes. Scope will come home to roost one day I promise. Just a matter of when. I’d rather be negotiating it during this summers shiit storm than in 5+++ years.

Oh and no profit sharing.

No block or better on a leg by leg basis. That’s humorous right there