CMFIC

What's the company's motivation for this deal? Quell labor unrest, avoid a release by the NMB? Could it be they're offering the absolute minimum amount necessary to pass a CBA that allows for reduced staffing, regaining operational control, and the ability to grow the airline? All of which is impossible for Sprit to do under our current deal.

It's obvious that Bendo et al are capable players in the game. Think of the company's action in every turn down this road. It almost makes it understandable that many on this board (and maybe the NC) are just ready to get something inked. I think we all need to admit, Miramar has played a far more effective game than we've been able to.

I know this is based on bullet points, but this is what I'll be paying close attention to when I review the T/A.

Highlights of what we get:
Pay raise
LTD
Scope improvements
DC contributions

Highlights of what WE PAY for these gains:
Industry trailing pay raises offset by-
PBS (think training drops, vacation drops, xx% less staffing, upgrades, and less furlough buffer, effective loss of 4 days off)
Elimination of transition conflicts
Rescheduling language
Relief to FAR 117 limitations (epic gain for the co. in itself)
Ability to fly 10 hour 3 day trips (concessionary layover language)
Lack of profit sharing
A very low cost signing bonus, compared to retro pay
Trade our leverage away and allow the airline to grow w/out being handcuffed by the high cost of our current work rules
Reserve pilots- drops based on red/green no longer apply (1x month?)

Bob hasn't been dishonest with us or the investment community from day 1. He's stated in one way or another he's confident our pay raises will be largely offset with new work rule efficiencies, that the pilots of Spirit Airlines are somehow on a different tier than the rest of the industry. The airline has even said they are postponing future aircraft orders until it reaches a deal. Growth is the lifeblood of Spirit Airlines. Even in his scant Emails, Bob has flat out told us he's happy to be giving pay raises in exchange for the ability to regain control of the operation.

With this deal, we'd be giving up the most valuable chests of negotiating capital that we won't be getting back. If we sign it away, it's gone. When I hear, "why should I turn down a 70k pay raise," I hear naivete. I won't be selling myself short.

If we vote this deal down, the company loses. Will it be years before we see another T/A? Will Spirit continue to tie itself to 20 pilots per plane (think 4000 pilots for 200 airframes in a market of scarce pilot availability)? Will the airline leave itself vulnerable to future operational disasters of an exponentially larger scale in the future? Will Spirit leave itself vulnerable to a staffing issue of qualified applicants? My guess is NO. The airline needs this deal more than most of us do.

I'm not asking anyone to vote for or against this deal. That being said, we won't see a more perfect storm again in our careers. It's not often you get perfect alignment of: Strong economy, newly minted corporate tax windfalls, an airline that desperately needs work rule concessions, and the nirvana of this current pattern bargaining cycle across the profession. When we vote on this T/A, it's imperative we realize the crown jewels of negotiating capital being offered up for a deal that may literally cement the pilots of all ULCCs to the lowest tier.

putzin

"When I hear, "why should I turn down a 70k pay raise," I hear naivete".

Then you're not listening. I haven't spoken with a soul that has said they would drop a "yes" vote based solely on rates or "I'm making 70k more a year"!

Every last soul has stated it depends on solid, SCOPE, LTD, RETIREMENT!

Now the pay is LOW and not one person has disagreed, but per your normal listening skills, you hear what you want (let's not pretend we don't know who you are). And nobody disagrees we should ask for more!

However, the gains of the last 6 months equalled 5xxx thousand per pilot/per YEAR (56 million/1900 pilots).

Unless we can be reasonably sure we can secure 200-400 million MORE over the next 6-12 months then it MATHEMATICALLY does not work!

Sure we'll feel better for "sticking it to the man" but at a huge cost! Maybe you're right, we've been out negotiated, but hopefully we're not so neieve as to allow ourselves to achieve a 30-50 thousand dollar gain while losing 40-80 over that 6-12 months.

Do you see that? Make 30-50k, LOSE 40-80k? Anything less than a 200 million addition, we lose! And we're risking (possibly) solid scope, Ltd, retirement. Does that make sense?

And since, much like astral, you won't shed light on what percentage gain we need to make if we torpedo this thing, then I guess we'll stick with mine.

The TA will obviously shed light, so more later.

putzin

I wonder about your priorities when you're willing to place work rules over good scope, LTD, retirement and a decent paycheck.

Obviously you and a small minority enjoy being a slave to the transition and will reap the smallest raise due to your effective rate being inflated by a mistake in 2010, but the rest of us want to just fly our line, be off for the most part when we want and not think about work when we're home.

Qotsaautopilot

Both solid points. Let’s also add pushing back the next amendable date by however long it takes.

Above all:

NO SCOPE NO VOTE!

flyguyniner11

I really don’t understand the loss of 4 days off with PBS. If we still have the 4 days off provision. You’ll still get the 4 days off. So how is that lost?

DrJekyll MrHyde

Why don’t you time capsule this quote and have it emailed to you in 2025, because you’ll be 2 years past your amendable date (again) with the same type of scumbag management and I bet your math won’t look too SOLID at that time. The likelihood of another U.S. ULCC starting up in the next 5 years and undercutting Spirit based on your scope is so far fetched I don’t know how you can even entertain it. And if Norwegian and WOW are allowed to come and operate between US destinations we’re ALL screwed, but it’ll be the legacies that get the tip of the shaft.

Stop putting lipstick on this 2-dimensional pig (you haven’t even gotten 3-dimensions with the TA yet) . If you need the money now or are content the economic package (& PBS), just say it’s a beautiful pig and be content with your decision. Stop giving people the hard sale for your own selfish reasons.

ZebraMan

Because its not accurate and why the forums are a horrible place to seek out information. Its the Facebook version of verifiable information; anyone can post what they want.

Deathwish

You’re absolutely right, so make sure the “perfect storm” of conditions passes before we get a contract. We are currently at the peak of a major bubble in the tech sector of the economy, and it is going to burst. It’s only a matter of time. If you’re confident that things will only get better and that the US economy isn’t going to recess at all then that’s great, but those are your words and these conditions are happening now, today, and this is the environment we are presented with.

astral

If I could answer that question I would be management.
I'm not referring to percentages, my goal is to avoid giving away everything.
With pay at JetBlue level, (or+10%) we absolutely need to save some of our QOL. What leverage will we have in 5-7 years?


CMFIC:
Unlike the above poster, I do not know you.
I was under the assumption that everyone realized how much we are giving up and the fact that there will be NOTHING left to negotiate next time arround.
Thank you for itemizing this under:
Highlights of what WE PAY for these gains
Very well said!

putzin

We have no idea how much were we're giving up in 25 because we haven't read the TA yet.

Rest assured, if it's as he listed and the other protections are not there I'll be voting "NO" with you both. 70 or 170 a year mean nothing to me without them.