putzin

Don't be a dk. Plenty of those guys are solid dudes!

putzin

This needs to be repeated.

lowandslow

Fixed.........

Foodstamps

Well I certainly agree with you there, but snapping at what's basically still a concessionary contract because the rates (and really, that's about the only thing) are better than they are today, is exactly what management is hoping you guys'll do.

Fact remains if you take this contract, Jetblue and likely Frontier will blow past Spirit in terms of QOL, work rules, pay and benefits - once again - for the next 5-10 years. Not to mention the 2% raise per year doesn't even keep up with CPI or any of the other airlines (who are all increasing 3-5%/yr), so all contracts remaining equal, you guys will still fall further and further behind.

No profit sharing?! Really?? Training and first year pay worse than most regionals and ANY low time part 135 gig, REALLY?

Are you willing to risk that vs waiting another few months for a real, competitive offer? If the message sent to management by the pilot group (and union) is always "well, at least it's better than it was before" then it's understandable why this was put up for vote in the first place.

You guys deserve better is all I'm saying. I hope you vote this thing down and fight for market rates, work rules and compensation. It's the way things should be in a market like this, and there's nothing stopping them from paying you properly.

Foodstamps

Thanks P. Like I said, that right there is 5-9%, depending what kind of routes you fly and what is going on in your route network that month.

Think about that. So at 9% at your proposed top captain rates, that's the equivalent of a $21.37 per hour raise. $23.36 by year four of the contract. You guys gotta nail down all those fringe ways of getting paid before you sign anything. That's a BIG loose end to leave out there! Additionally...

My profit sharing was a kick to the nuts this year after our JCBA because the ALK profit sharing is garbage compared to how we had it at VX. I would have more than doubled what I made in profit sharing were it more competitive, or even the same percentage as it was at VX. Unfortunately that wasn't part of what got opened up in JCBA negotiation, so that'll have to be rectified in 2020.

Profit sharing should be 10-18% of your W2 wages, in this economy, depending how well your airline is doing. You guys are slaying it, but the only ones getting any incentive from that are in management. That's not fair to front line employees who are doing the actual work to make the profits.

That math again - Profit sharing, plus block or better per leg equals a 15-27% raise. This contract has NONE of that. You get what you negotiate, and you guys deserve better.

Sky is Falling

It was the Alaska arbitration, your airline, in which the arbitrator stated that your airline “can’t compete against DAL, AMR, UAL on the basis of network....” “it must maintain low costs to compete successfully.”

With do respect, coming onto a Spirit Ta forum telling pilots to hold out for industry standard scope and rates; all the while your airline allowed a Pandora’s box of LCC crap to be poured out in an arbitration hearing, doesn’t help. Airline arbitration records do play with the NMB and are clearly referable to management like Spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue, while making a case on why industry standard is not reasonable.

Maybe I should go to the Alaska/VX thread and tell you guys how you need scope and how you need legacy rates once you finally open section 6. It would go over just as wel.

Foodstamps

Point taken, however for the record we were, surprisingly to most, arbitrated to that. We never got to vote. Had we, it would have been shot down until it was industry standard, as many of us including our MEC all believed we deserved better, and our pilots at both ALK and VX were extremely unified in such beliefs.

The company can easily afford it and to say otherwise, in this economy, is to believe in the trickle down effect that has been proven to be an economic farce. Sure, more growth is possible with extra cash...so are dividends, CEO raises, management bonuses and issuance of stock options and preferred stock to the BOD. Which do you think will happen first? Be honest.

The fact the arbitrator sided with the company for scope isn't the fault of our MEC or negotiating comittee, we asked for scope, industry standard rates and DC, which was all that what was up for negotiation under the JCBA. Pay rates were midway between company and industry standard, yearly raises were industry standard and DC went to 15%. We got nearly most of what we asked for, besides scope, and many of us were (are) very disappointed and upset about that.

Trust me, in 2020 if we don't get industry standard and scope, the place will burn down. I hope our current and future contracts ultimately help raise the bar for all, even though our current one wasn't perfect and is certainly missing scope. I hope the best for you guys as well, but think your current TA, simply put, just isn't good enough. An arbitrator may be able to sell us short, but we would never vote that way.

ForTheWin

Uh, excuse me...but clearly the majority within your MEC agreed to binding arbitration. So you get what you get and you live with it. Thanks for the lesson on what we should do. But no thanks to you and your MEC, we're where we are as a direct result of your arbitration.

Like you, I hope the best for you on your next round...but, like mentioned previously, your arbitration solidified the floor for the rest of us. So...thanks?

Foodstamps

The outcome of our arbitration was much worse than any of us thought possible, including our MEC, otherwise we wouldn't have agreed to it to begin with. We were all pretty disappointed, mostly in terms of scope. Pay and DC are pretty darn close but could be better, no other sections were opened and no more will be till 2020 for us. With 2020 being so close, that's my guess as to why they agreed to arbitration at all. Our contract still brought the industry up significantly as a whole, and although many of us were frustrated at the outcome, we are thankful for our hardworking reps and their dedication to our combined pilot group. We will not make the arbitration mistake in 2020 and we will be more unified than ever.

That said...If we are supposedly the floor as you put it...then where does this current contract put you guys if voted in, the basement? Why settle for any less than ALK achieved? Why take large scheduling concessions? The huge QOL hit? Why give up PBS without getting something SUBSTANTIAL in return? Why settle for anything? The point is, in this job market with cheap gas, a strong economy and lots of options for us as pilots...you simply don't need to.

There's no reason you should be able to make more your first year at a regional than at a major. Ever. That's not how it's supposed to work. Do you disagree? If not, how can you vote yes?

BKbigfish

Alaska = zero scope
Alaska = zero (minimal) work rules

Spirit = Scope + work rules - $15-$20/hr

I know what I’d rather have...