We Got a T/A!!
02-01-2018, 06:53 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 765
So, hypothetically, if there is an improvement in scope, but it doesn’t meet your personal muster, you’d automatically vote no without taking the other sections into consideration? Seems similar to those who automatically look at section 3, look at the rates, and automatically say no....
I’ve got news for you, there is no such thing as ‘iron clad’ scope. Southwest is close, though. Along those lines, if we have anything less than Southwest scope, you’d vote no?
I’ve got news for you, there is no such thing as ‘iron clad’ scope. Southwest is close, though. Along those lines, if we have anything less than Southwest scope, you’d vote no?
02-01-2018, 07:03 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: Da Bus, Left
Posts: 1,564
I just wonder if people are allowing the perfect be the enemy of the good. Especially without a coherent plan B.
02-01-2018, 07:12 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
So, hypothetically, if there is an improvement in scope, but it doesn’t meet your personal muster, you’d automatically vote no without taking the other sections into consideration? Seems similar to those who automatically look at section 3, look at the rates, and automatically say no....
I’ve got news for you, there is no such thing as ‘iron clad’ scope. Southwest is close, though. Along those lines, if we have anything less than Southwest scope, you’d vote no?
I’ve got news for you, there is no such thing as ‘iron clad’ scope. Southwest is close, though. Along those lines, if we have anything less than Southwest scope, you’d vote no?
I’m not blind to the fact that the retirement is a big win, the LTD (my second most important requirement) is a big win, and the pay is a big jump although industry lagging with no me too clause. No profit sharing which is industry standard. Scheduling will Concessionary but hopefully industry standard as a body of work with pluses and minuses. That should mean we get everything else industry standard which it is not. Now I’m willing to move past that if they are willlingbto protect our current AND future flying and insure my medical. It looks like they’ve agreed to at least one of those items. We will see scope tomorrow. If it doesn’t protect our growth and outsourcing I wouldn’t even vote for an industry leading compensation package let alone an industry lagging one. But I will vote for an industry lagging one to secure those vital protections. It’s that important.
02-01-2018, 07:55 AM
#54
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 6
MIRAMAR, FL—Today, the pilots of Spirit Airlines, as represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), responded to statements made by Spirit CEO Robert L. Fornaro on the April 26 quarterly earnings call. During the call that announced better than expected pretax margins of 21.3 percent, Fornaro was asked about ongoing pilot negotiations and the rapid rise of pilot compensation at other carriers. Fornaro responded that the industry is tiered, and Spirit is firmly in the lowest tier along with Frontier and Allegiant. He suggested that this lowest tier is Spirit’s “peer group.”
“Based on these statements, Mr. Fornaro seems to imply that Spirit pilot compensation must also remain in the lower tier and tied to carriers whose pay rates and working conditions were either diminished by bankruptcy or unilaterally set without bargaining,” said Capt. Stuart Morrison, chairman of the Spirit unit of ALPA. “Simply put, this is a bogus assertion. Spirit’s profit margin—a much more relevant metric than ticket pricing—puts the company well into the industry’s upper tier.”
Bob was 100 percent correct. We will be on the lowest tier with Frontier and Allegiant for the next 8 years. Remember how angry this made people? What a difference a year makes. Not so bogus after all.
“Based on these statements, Mr. Fornaro seems to imply that Spirit pilot compensation must also remain in the lower tier and tied to carriers whose pay rates and working conditions were either diminished by bankruptcy or unilaterally set without bargaining,” said Capt. Stuart Morrison, chairman of the Spirit unit of ALPA. “Simply put, this is a bogus assertion. Spirit’s profit margin—a much more relevant metric than ticket pricing—puts the company well into the industry’s upper tier.”
Bob was 100 percent correct. We will be on the lowest tier with Frontier and Allegiant for the next 8 years. Remember how angry this made people? What a difference a year makes. Not so bogus after all.
02-01-2018, 08:10 AM
#55
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 20
I have yet to hear a coherent plan if this TA gets voted down how we would move forward. Who would step forward for MEC chairman? Who would step up to the plate for the NC? What is the plan to reengage the company? Think the company will come crawling back? Think again! The only reason we are where we are today is WE reengaged the NMB who then got the company back to the table. The company did not come crawling back on their knees, nor would they likely in the future. Future aircraft orders? No longer in the plan according to the last earnings call or the investor presentation slides. They may be looking to grow, just not necessarily organically (how’s our current scope again?). Hiring issues? Not a problem at present. The December bid did give me some hope, but it appears to have been a fluke. If this current deal is cost neutral as some would like you to believe, then why hasn’t the company done it long ago?! That defies logic....
The lack of a plan B is what gives me the most hesitation for voting no. That said, once I read it, there may be enough poison pills where I’m willing to walk away.... We shall see.
The lack of a plan B is what gives me the most hesitation for voting no. That said, once I read it, there may be enough poison pills where I’m willing to walk away.... We shall see.
“Hiring issues not a problem” you must not be an FO. The entire grid is red. It’s impossible to swap or drop anything but yeah we’re staffed properly. I’m assuming your a captain that’s been here between 3-6 years that can only see the money!!
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02-01-2018, 08:24 AM
#56
captain scarlet
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Who needs to know?
Posts: 170
It’s pretty common for management to have ALPA sign a letter agreeing to support the TA. Don’t let that sway your decision. In the past, the union would put out a pro/con paper but now with agreements to support a TA, those don’t come out anymore. You guys have a tough decision. It’s a substantial improvement, but is it enough. Good luck with your decisions.
At Delta, our MEC Chairman resigned after the failure of TA1 (he would have been ridden out of town on a rail if he hadn’t) so we had to elect another one before reengaging the company and we still had a much better TA in 6 months.
At Delta, our MEC Chairman resigned after the failure of TA1 (he would have been ridden out of town on a rail if he hadn’t) so we had to elect another one before reengaging the company and we still had a much better TA in 6 months.
I very much appreciate you presenting those FACTS.
THANK YOU for providing this INVALUABLE INPUT.
02-01-2018, 08:29 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 765
02-01-2018, 08:43 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Office Chair
Posts: 637
If you are waiting to hear about a "plan B" from the NC or MEC if this TA gets voted down, don't hold your breath, the option won't be discussed during the road shows. It doesn't mean the plan doesn't exist. What you will hear are dire warnings of uncertainty and the unknown if it gets voted down. We've been here before.
02-01-2018, 08:54 AM
#59
captain scarlet
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Who needs to know?
Posts: 170
This above, is my main point. ^
Which has been proven historically.
The NC will sell this, regardless of letter, it's their position and I respect it.
Remember, these guys had their names on the TRO, and were sued personally.
I met one of them following that event and he did not look like himself.
It is extremely stressful to have that dangling overhead, while negotiating.
Having said that, I truly believe they were passionate and did the best they could.
In or out, they have my full respect and gratitude.
Which has been proven historically.
The NC will sell this, regardless of letter, it's their position and I respect it.
Remember, these guys had their names on the TRO, and were sued personally.
I met one of them following that event and he did not look like himself.
It is extremely stressful to have that dangling overhead, while negotiating.
Having said that, I truly believe they were passionate and did the best they could.
In or out, they have my full respect and gratitude.
02-01-2018, 08:55 AM
#60
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 60
If you are waiting to hear about a "plan B" from the NC or MEC if this TA gets voted down, don't hold your breath, the option won't be discussed during the road shows. It doesn't mean the plan doesn't exist. What you will hear are dire warnings of uncertainty and the unknown if it gets voted down. We've been here before.
Let me guess...."No man's land"
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