Less pay more go!
12-07-2017, 09:12 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: NK CA
Posts: 853
LOL well as of right now the nmb wont be “deciding” anything since they seem to be coming up with better excuses for the company to drag out negotiations than management can think of. Fornaro seems hell bent on letting this place burn to the ground instead of giving its pilots a fair contract. Can we get another TRO if the government is shut down? Asking for a friend.
12-08-2017, 05:45 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Imagine a passenger sitting in 20D. He sits there second guessing every decision we make up front. “Why did they go left?” “Why didn’t they climb?”
Why...why....why....Those guys!!!
This is as productive as I see coming on these forums and second guessing and ASSuming what the NMB should do, mediators should do, and NC should do. We have spent zero time personally in that board room yet every member in this forum and pilot list is an expert on what all sides should do. Just because both sides don’t agree, doesn’t mean there is deadlock to call for a cooling off period.
They (NMB) will decide when we are at an impass, the NC is pushing for what they believe we can get, the company will do what they do, and the world continues to spin.
As it stands, we are not close to being released to a cooling off period. This is obvious since we just came off ice. The ONLY way we get closer to that is to engage in more talks, hoping the company steps on their junk while we have made moves that the mediator wanted to see. Until then, it’s all speculation.
Plus, time for some truth. We will not be released under this NMB. It’s a new board with 2 new members. They are republican appointed from a business owner President who loathes unions.
Take a breath. It’s a long career and this won’t be the last time we battle these guys in a contract. Let the process work, no matter how prejudice it is against pilots, we let it work.
Why...why....why....Those guys!!!
This is as productive as I see coming on these forums and second guessing and ASSuming what the NMB should do, mediators should do, and NC should do. We have spent zero time personally in that board room yet every member in this forum and pilot list is an expert on what all sides should do. Just because both sides don’t agree, doesn’t mean there is deadlock to call for a cooling off period.
They (NMB) will decide when we are at an impass, the NC is pushing for what they believe we can get, the company will do what they do, and the world continues to spin.
As it stands, we are not close to being released to a cooling off period. This is obvious since we just came off ice. The ONLY way we get closer to that is to engage in more talks, hoping the company steps on their junk while we have made moves that the mediator wanted to see. Until then, it’s all speculation.
Plus, time for some truth. We will not be released under this NMB. It’s a new board with 2 new members. They are republican appointed from a business owner President who loathes unions.
Take a breath. It’s a long career and this won’t be the last time we battle these guys in a contract. Let the process work, no matter how prejudice it is against pilots, we let it work.
If full retro was mandatory I’d say let the NMB do their job but they seem to think it’s perfectly acceptable to let Spirit stall endlessly and not hold them to full retro which incentivizes delay. It will incentivize stalling next time as well so they can turn a 5 year contract in to an 8 year contract. The fact that the NMB feels they can facilitate the company stealing money from this dedicated group everyday is BS. I’m not willing to accept less for the sake of getting a deal done but that’s exactly why the company does this.
We are not going to accept less than industry standard!!! It’s reasonable and if Spirit isn’t interested in paying for that then there is zero point in continuing to negotiate! READY TO STRIKE!!
12-08-2017, 06:43 AM
#23
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
I’m not second guessing the NC and support them 100% until the day they send out an industry trailing TA. By beef is with the process and I’m tired of “letting it work”. We are absolutely deadlocked if the company is not agreeing to industry standard. Anything else is stalling by the company or us offering concessions from what is perfectly reasonable in this market, and that would be unacceptable. It’s not negotiable! And as far as I know the NC is relaying that message.
If full retro was mandatory I’d say let the NMB do their job but they seem to think it’s perfectly acceptable to let Spirit stall endlessly and not hold them to full retro which incentivizes delay. It will incentivize stalling next time as well so they can turn a 5 year contract in to an 8 year contract. The fact that the NMB feels they can facilitate the company stealing money from this dedicated group everyday is BS. I’m not willing to accept less for the sake of getting a deal done but that’s exactly why the company does this.
We are not going to accept less than industry standard!!! It’s reasonable and if Spirit isn’t interested in paying for that then there is zero point in continuing to negotiate! READY TO STRIKE!!
If full retro was mandatory I’d say let the NMB do their job but they seem to think it’s perfectly acceptable to let Spirit stall endlessly and not hold them to full retro which incentivizes delay. It will incentivize stalling next time as well so they can turn a 5 year contract in to an 8 year contract. The fact that the NMB feels they can facilitate the company stealing money from this dedicated group everyday is BS. I’m not willing to accept less for the sake of getting a deal done but that’s exactly why the company does this.
We are not going to accept less than industry standard!!! It’s reasonable and if Spirit isn’t interested in paying for that then there is zero point in continuing to negotiate! READY TO STRIKE!!
Did ya see CM Linked in? Talk about Anti-Union, yikes
12-08-2017, 08:38 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Yellow bus
Posts: 175
Been getting a lot of calls from mom and dad again asking for extra help around the house. My problem is they haven't respected me for a long time and lately have just been using me and my siblings. So sorry mom, dad but not gonna be helping around the house any more. Maybe soon because of this they might appreciate what we do for them and treat us with the respect we deserve.
12-08-2017, 08:45 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 316
I’m not second guessing the NC and support them 100% until the day they send out an industry trailing TA. By beef is with the process and I’m tired of “letting it work”. We are absolutely deadlocked if the company is not agreeing to industry standard. Anything else is stalling by the company or us offering concessions from what is perfectly reasonable in this market, and that would be unacceptable. It’s not negotiable! And as far as I know the NC is relaying that message.
If full retro was mandatory I’d say let the NMB do their job but they seem to think it’s perfectly acceptable to let Spirit stall endlessly and not hold them to full retro which incentivizes delay. It will incentivize stalling next time as well so they can turn a 5 year contract in to an 8 year contract. The fact that the NMB feels they can facilitate the company stealing money from this dedicated group everyday is BS. I’m not willing to accept less for the sake of getting a deal done but that’s exactly why the company does this.
We are not going to accept less than industry standard!!! It’s reasonable and if Spirit isn’t interested in paying for that then there is zero point in continuing to negotiate! READY TO STRIKE!!
If full retro was mandatory I’d say let the NMB do their job but they seem to think it’s perfectly acceptable to let Spirit stall endlessly and not hold them to full retro which incentivizes delay. It will incentivize stalling next time as well so they can turn a 5 year contract in to an 8 year contract. The fact that the NMB feels they can facilitate the company stealing money from this dedicated group everyday is BS. I’m not willing to accept less for the sake of getting a deal done but that’s exactly why the company does this.
We are not going to accept less than industry standard!!! It’s reasonable and if Spirit isn’t interested in paying for that then there is zero point in continuing to negotiate! READY TO STRIKE!!
First, "Perfectly reasonable in this market" is a matter of opinion.
Second, the NMB and the RLA process protects both the worker and the company.
It protects the worker when the company wants to unilaterally replace it's workers with cheaper labor when they demand a 50% pay cut below that of the market. The mediator in that case won't declare it an impasse and allow the company to lockout it's workers strictly on the fact the the differences are too big because it'll consider the company's offer insincere.
It also protects the company from job actions when it consider the ask from labor is out of line with "what's reasonable in this market", which tentamounts to extortion on the labor's part.
Based on Alaska's arbitration results. When it came to compensation, the arbitrators put them solidly in ?5?th place among other carriers based on a variety of factors.
You keep using words like "industry standard," yet you seem to define that as Legacy pay rates without PBS, keeping transition conflicts, 4 days off, and the ability to drop at will, at the same time completely disregarding the rest of the industry.
I understand you don't agree. but to a mediator and the NMB, you're out of line with what's reasonable in this market and they're doing their job by not allowing labor to hold the business hostage with a job action based on what they consider an unreasonable demand.
You'll need to come to terms with the fact that a strike is a remote possibility that's years away.
Good luck and may your retro grow ever bigger.
Peace, happy holidays
12-08-2017, 08:58 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Take a hike Feng!
We have offered PBS. They have not offered legacy compensation.
The NMB can cite the Alaska arbitration all they want because it holds no water. Look at Hawaiian. They have less than 700 pilots. By that rationale they should make less than Allegiant. It’s also one arbitrators opinion and shouldn’t be being used as the gospel.
I wish they could be able to lock us out. Good luck finding 2000 scabs.
We have offered PBS. They have not offered legacy compensation.
The NMB can cite the Alaska arbitration all they want because it holds no water. Look at Hawaiian. They have less than 700 pilots. By that rationale they should make less than Allegiant. It’s also one arbitrators opinion and shouldn’t be being used as the gospel.
I wish they could be able to lock us out. Good luck finding 2000 scabs.
12-08-2017, 09:57 AM
#27
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 155
Allow me to chime in.
First, "Perfectly reasonable in this market" is a matter of opinion.
Second, the NMB and the RLA process protects both the worker and the company.
It protects the worker when the company wants to unilaterally replace it's workers with cheaper labor when they demand a 50% pay cut below that of the market. The mediator in that case won't declare it an impasse and allow the company to lockout it's workers strictly on the fact the the differences are too big because it'll consider the company's offer insincere.
It also protects the company from job actions when it consider the ask from labor is out of line with "what's reasonable in this market", which tentamounts to extortion on the labor's part.
Based on Alaska's arbitration results. When it came to compensation, the arbitrators put them solidly in ?5?th place among other carriers based on a variety of factors.
You keep using words like "industry standard," yet you seem to define that as Legacy pay rates without PBS, keeping transition conflicts, 4 days off, and the ability to drop at will, at the same time completely disregarding the rest of the industry.
I understand you don't agree. but to a mediator and the NMB, you're out of line with what's reasonable in this market and they're doing their job by not allowing labor to hold the business hostage with a job action based on what they consider an unreasonable demand.
You'll need to come to terms with the fact that a strike is a remote possibility that's years away.
Good luck and may your retro grow ever bigger.
Peace, happy holidays
First, "Perfectly reasonable in this market" is a matter of opinion.
Second, the NMB and the RLA process protects both the worker and the company.
It protects the worker when the company wants to unilaterally replace it's workers with cheaper labor when they demand a 50% pay cut below that of the market. The mediator in that case won't declare it an impasse and allow the company to lockout it's workers strictly on the fact the the differences are too big because it'll consider the company's offer insincere.
It also protects the company from job actions when it consider the ask from labor is out of line with "what's reasonable in this market", which tentamounts to extortion on the labor's part.
Based on Alaska's arbitration results. When it came to compensation, the arbitrators put them solidly in ?5?th place among other carriers based on a variety of factors.
You keep using words like "industry standard," yet you seem to define that as Legacy pay rates without PBS, keeping transition conflicts, 4 days off, and the ability to drop at will, at the same time completely disregarding the rest of the industry.
I understand you don't agree. but to a mediator and the NMB, you're out of line with what's reasonable in this market and they're doing their job by not allowing labor to hold the business hostage with a job action based on what they consider an unreasonable demand.
You'll need to come to terms with the fact that a strike is a remote possibility that's years away.
Good luck and may your retro grow ever bigger.
Peace, happy holidays
As unpopular as this message may be, it is right on the money as to how the NMB thinks and does business.
And for those that think posts like these hurt the pilots’ cause, you are being really naive. The NMB isn’t going to give you a 100% pay raise (legacy rates) in one fell swoop along with legacy work rules and benefits. Not going to happen! You can cry “same plane, same routes, same, same” but that’s not how this process works.
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