Chimpy

Our CASM including fuel is 7.5 cents. Giving the CA a $100/hr raise and the FO 60/hr and then DOUBLING that increased cost (because it costs companies on average twice an employees' salary to employ them, including benefits, etc.) raises CASM to 7.9 cents. This reduces our 20% profit margin to 13%. We're not an insignificant cost, but we are an affordable one. Or stated another way, the company accounts for the difference between "healthy" and "obscene" profit margins by taking it off our backs. Math is your friend.

Feng

Math is everyone’s friend. When I took math in high school. The teacher counted an answer as wrong if no work is shown for everyone to critique.

Because watch this..CASM is 7.5 cents, giving an CA an $75 dollar raise and an FO an $30 dollar raise then times that by 1.5 raises the CASM to 9.8 cents losing the company 3.2 billion a year and the water in your toilet counter rotates.

Chimpy

Three months ended September 30, 2017 data:

Adjusted CASM = 7.48 cents = "C"

TRASM = 8.95 cents = "R"

Average stage length = 991 miles = "L"

Assumptions:

Cost of proposed raise = ($100/hr for CA + $60 for FO) * 2 to account for average double cost of wages to employers due to benefits, etc. = $320/hr = "P"

Average number of seats = 182 = "S"

Average block time for average stage length = 2.5 = "B"

Calculations:

Current profit margin = R/C = 19.7%

New CASM due to proposed raise = C + PB/SL = 7.92 cents

New profit margin = R/N = 13.0%

Again, this includes a factor the cost of benefits (LTD, retirement, etc) but no mitigation for reduced costs due to increased productivity.


I could do this all day.......

Feng

Not sure if you read my previous previous post. I believe that there are legitimate factors that the above equation does not consider.

You yourself flew ~150 hours last year. Had there been a higher compensation, your equation would factor in the higher CASM for those 150 hours worth of flights. But how do you reconcile the additional ~750 hours that you were paid and it’s impact on the overall increase in CASM.

Qotsaautopilot

Hours paid to hours flown at Spirit is on par will other airlines. The Spirit airbus pilot group may have more “soft time” paid out than a legacy airbus pilot group. But it reconciles itself because we are a single fleet airline and don’t have the training churn of other airlines where they are paying guys to go to training on new types instead of moving airplanes or even simply paying them to do absolutely nothing while they sit at home on a shrinking fleet waiting for a training date on a growing fleet.

Chimps situation is not a group norm and not a factor when you look at the legacy carriers that fly almost every plane Boeing and Airbus make.and the amount of paid hours for not actually moving an airplane on top of the normal soft time they already create in normal line operations. Allegiant is just about the only airline that has very minimal soft credit, every other airline has plenty.

Not to mention we have already offered substantial efficiency concessions. Spirit wants to take it all though in their true greedy fashion and on top of that if we were dumb enough to give it to them they feel entitled to pay minimally for it.

Qotsaautopilot

Double post

Lincoln Osiris

This sitting around waiting for the company to start shtting out rainbows is getting old. Phone polls and billboards will only make management laugh and will not get them back to the negotiation table.

Phteven

You must have done some incredible mental gymnastics to arrive at that number. This is a softball, Feng. To refute this "math" ...

1.
Total block hours in 2016: 389,914.
$105 per block hour ($75+$30) x 389.914 = 40.94M
We get paid more credit than we typically block, but that's some serious soft time to get from a 40.94M cost increase to costing the company billions of dollars.

2.
Total 2016 operating expenses: 1.878B
Total 2016 ASM: 25.49B
2016 CASM: 7.37 c
Let's just assume rather conservatively that the entire pilot group credits an average of 2 for every block hour flown, our new CASM would be:
(40.94M x 2) + 1.878B = 1.96B
1.96B / 25.49B = 7.69 c (new CASM)

I'm really curious where you got that $3.2B cost to the company number, because I'm coming up with a CASM north of 21 c to get that. That is more than double our RASM. Either you missed carrying a lot of decimals or you just flat out made that **** up.

Feng

I just flat out made all that crap up... it was all typed in jest as a response to another post. Should of added a wink face for clarity.

Feng

1. How do you know this? Do you have any data? I beg the differ on my non-data.

2. What does that mean? I get that there are soft time everywhere else. All those costs are included in the standard way of calculating CASM. The topic at hand is when we use the above specific way to calculate the resulting increase in CASM with an increase in rate compensation rate, those soft time costs are NOT accounted for and does NOT RECONCILE ITSELF