Feng

Take non ticket sales revenue into account for what?

Looking at costs alone is irrelevant. That’s what I’m trying to say.
If everyone had a 20%ish margin. Then NK’s revenue was only 6.77cents with cost of 5.42 while and Delta’s was 15.75/12.621 respectively.

I don’t actually have the real numbers. But was hoping someone on here did so an accurate assessment can be made.

Feng

Don't know where you dug but here are the numbers for NK and DAL 3 months ending in 9/30.

NK CASM/TRASM 7.59/8.95
DAL CASM/TRASM 13.14/15.76

while DAL's costs were almost doubled that of NK's, so was their revenue. What conclusion does this lead you to?

But oh wait, the union said legacy pay at spirit will only increase CASM by a couple pennies. Wondered if the mediator believed that.

Chimpy

As far as Payrates I meant. The ALPA proposed payrate for a 5th year CA Was like $200 +/- a fee bucks.

flyboyike

You can when they keep more of that revenue than legacies do. Put it another way: which sandwich is more profitable, one that sells for $7 with a $2 profit or one that sells for $79.95 with only a 80c profit? I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

Planepirate

Either way, with industry standard pilot pay we would still have industry leading CASM. It is not our job to subsidize the company’s inability to produce revenue. We (the pilots) already play a big part in covering the mismanagement of this place. They just flat out suck at running an airline.

In addition, we aren’t just comparing ourselves to Delta. What is the RASM/TRASM at United?

Softpayman

Went from line bidding at my regional to PBS at JB. Even with our so-so work rules I much prefer PBS to divvy up pairings.

Feng

I don’t know, why don’t you do the math.

What does industry leading CASM mean? How do you know? Put up some numbers instead of saying because the union said so. Add up what an industry standard contract cost additionally per year and subtract it from the balance sheet and see how it affect the numbers. FYI I think 3rd quarter to date, NK made 170m profit. Apparently everyone thinks they’re underpaid by 100K/yr. Based on 1700 pilots, that’s 170m, wiping out all profit for the year so far (well not all because those would be accounted for pre tax)

What do you mean company’s inability to produce revenue? Your company’s producing plenty of revenue for what it is. It’s an ULCC, it’s a low revenue / low cost business. It’s like motel 6 has a revenue problem because the hotel doesn’t take in as much as a Sheraton and such.

Qotsaautopilot

Do you prefer being at much lower relative seniority than you would be with line bidding? Which means: closer to furlough, further from upgrade, further from your base of choice, further from your vacation week of choice, further from having a holiday off, further from having weekends off, closer to being displaced, slower career progression, more stagnation in a no growth time, slower advancement in a growth time.

Ever been one seniority number away from any of the items above for a period of years? Would being on the other side of that equation for those years have changed your life for better or worse? Saved or ended your marriage? Pbs or line bidding would mean the difference no matter what work rules you have. No management switches to pbs without a change in staffing. The work rules just dictate by how much.

Pbs is a staffing reduction plain and simple. It’s either priceless and not for sale, or you’re willing to accept the above repricussions that you personally may not even feel the effects from for 5, 10, or 20 years. If that’s the case then you get absolute iron clad work rules that are important to you (they will be violated anyway, can we remember a year of all red rsv grids while we waited for arbitration) and a sum of money that is so comically large you chuckle when you get your checks. Only we decide how that goes. Let’s not be wrong.

Grizzle

[QUOTE=ZapBrannigan;2456100]Just my opinion,but being able just to drop a trip if there was reserve coverage was great. During monthly transition they couldn't remove days from the middle of pairings they had to remove from the beginning or the end. They also have to pay you for the trips that were dropped, and the five days off, reducible to four, between pairings. SWA has great QOL too but I thought Spirits was a little better. Just how I feel. I'm sure there are people out there that feel the opposite.

Feng

I like your example, except the numbers goes something like this.

Sandwich man at NK discount sandwiches sells sandwiches for $9, it cost him $5.60/sandwich. For every sandwich, he pays himself $2 and reinvest $1.40 back to his business

DALe’s sandwiches sells $16 sandwiches that cost him $9.50, with each sale he pays himself $4 and reinvest $2.50 back into his business.

They get paid per sandwich and each sells the same fixed number of sandwiches a year.

Can Ned pay himself $4 without selling a different kind of sandwich?Can’t raise the prices much because it’s a pretty crappy sandwich.