Hello PBS; Goodbye QOL
10-28-2017, 08:42 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Good luck NK. We are behind you at F9!
10-28-2017, 09:32 AM
#43
captain scarlet
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Who needs to know?
Posts: 170
The company trolls are posting about legacy rates...
while management's offer was barely JetBlue.
In actual net, their "offer" equates to less than a 20% raise.
Productivity gained by PBS alone is at min in the high teens.
PBS is a 100 page LOA in itself.
Presently not enough information has been presented, to vote on.
Dozens of scheduling committee volunteers will be required to oversee the implementation of monthly PBS.
NCCs will be off the charts. Fly and grieve it, will become the norm.
In the red/green and middle reserve day drop grievances, the company deliberately violated black and white CBA provisions.
They will have a field day with PBS!
Bye bye open time.
Every provision they are after reduces open time.
RES drop is imperative and non negotiable.
It affects the entire group, not only reserves.
Without RES drops, planning gains total control of open time.
To the argument that we did not come here with legacy expectations:
Refer back to this forum from 2011 to 2014, when morale was positive.
Everyone expected pay to coincide with the record breaking earnings.
This misinformation of lowering expectations game, is the oldest play in the book, WE DO NOT fall for it.
We will be patient and match their ugly tactics, or fall for the same old lies, during the TRO and last three summers.
We will not be undervalued!
UNITED WE STAND.
while management's offer was barely JetBlue.
In actual net, their "offer" equates to less than a 20% raise.
Productivity gained by PBS alone is at min in the high teens.
PBS is a 100 page LOA in itself.
Presently not enough information has been presented, to vote on.
Dozens of scheduling committee volunteers will be required to oversee the implementation of monthly PBS.
NCCs will be off the charts. Fly and grieve it, will become the norm.
In the red/green and middle reserve day drop grievances, the company deliberately violated black and white CBA provisions.
They will have a field day with PBS!
Bye bye open time.
Every provision they are after reduces open time.
RES drop is imperative and non negotiable.
It affects the entire group, not only reserves.
Without RES drops, planning gains total control of open time.
To the argument that we did not come here with legacy expectations:
Refer back to this forum from 2011 to 2014, when morale was positive.
Everyone expected pay to coincide with the record breaking earnings.
This misinformation of lowering expectations game, is the oldest play in the book, WE DO NOT fall for it.
We will be patient and match their ugly tactics, or fall for the same old lies, during the TRO and last three summers.
We will not be undervalued!
UNITED WE STAND.
10-28-2017, 10:47 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,932
Has the union shared what their pay rate proposal is?
AS/VX pay proposal was a little bit below Delta. It’s being realistic. If your pay proposal matches what Delta has, while maintaining your line bidding advantages over Delta’s PBS, that is being unreasonable in front of a mediator. You can ask for “industry standard” pay, but keep in mind industry standard already means PBS in place that sees pre-assigned activities. No touch vacation, month transition, or training. That cost is already included in those rates. You can’t really expect to double dip those pay rates with your line bid advantages.
AS/VX pay proposal was a little bit below Delta. It’s being realistic. If your pay proposal matches what Delta has, while maintaining your line bidding advantages over Delta’s PBS, that is being unreasonable in front of a mediator. You can ask for “industry standard” pay, but keep in mind industry standard already means PBS in place that sees pre-assigned activities. No touch vacation, month transition, or training. That cost is already included in those rates. You can’t really expect to double dip those pay rates with your line bid advantages.
10-28-2017, 11:37 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,542
Has the union shared what their pay rate proposal is?
AS/VX pay proposal was a little bit below Delta. It’s being realistic. If your pay proposal matches what Delta has, while maintaining your line bidding advantages over Delta’s PBS, that is being unreasonable in front of a mediator. You can ask for “industry standard” pay, but keep in mind industry standard already means PBS in place that sees pre-assigned activities. No touch vacation, month transition, or training. That cost is already included in those rates. You can’t really expect to double dip those pay rates with your line bid advantages.
AS/VX pay proposal was a little bit below Delta. It’s being realistic. If your pay proposal matches what Delta has, while maintaining your line bidding advantages over Delta’s PBS, that is being unreasonable in front of a mediator. You can ask for “industry standard” pay, but keep in mind industry standard already means PBS in place that sees pre-assigned activities. No touch vacation, month transition, or training. That cost is already included in those rates. You can’t really expect to double dip those pay rates with your line bid advantages.
This was also with 11% DC, not 16% and ZERO Profit Sharing and yet the mediator still thinks we are being unreasonable
Hows that for a swift kick in the face eh?
10-28-2017, 12:07 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,932
Wait, that’s the ALPA proposal or the company proposal?! If that’s the ALPA proposal, why the $&@? haven’t they accepted that? That’s actually very generous as it is, should be an even higher ask. Ours comes out on Monday, hopefully that gets the comparison equation to change for the positive in pattern bargaining.
10-28-2017, 03:01 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 316
Wait, that’s the ALPA proposal or the company proposal?! If that’s the ALPA proposal, why the $&@? haven’t they accepted that? That’s actually very generous as it is, should be an even higher ask. Ours comes out on Monday, hopefully that gets the comparison equation to change for the positive in pattern bargaining.
You can hardly expect NK to pay legacy wages when each flight generate less revenue than a non-Ultra discount product.
I suspect the mediator has the same line of thinking.
10-28-2017, 04:32 PM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 53
Mr. White
10-28-2017, 04:51 PM
#49
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 81
Well here’s one thought that I don’t actually know the answer to. NK is a low revenue operation. Wouldn’t it be a fairer compensation comparison using say, legacy pilot CASM / RASM to get a percentage, and use that percentage and multiply it by NK’s RASM to see what NK’s pilot cost per ASM should be and then translate it to an hourly rate.
You can hardly expect NK to pay legacy wages when each flight generate less revenue than a non-Ultra discount product.
I suspect the mediator has the same line of thinking.
You can hardly expect NK to pay legacy wages when each flight generate less revenue than a non-Ultra discount product.
I suspect the mediator has the same line of thinking.
Why does this dude who's not even an airline pilot keep posting stuff about our contract negotiations. It's very strange.
10-28-2017, 05:31 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 316
I guess it’s because the reasoning you guys use behind what you think you deserve is simply the most illogical thinking I’ve seen anywhere. Refute what I say, don’t attack the messenger. Oh and have you considered that I’m a woman?
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