Hello PBS; Goodbye QOL
11-06-2017, 10:11 PM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: NK CA
Posts: 854
I have QOL. With several hundred or thousand trips to distribute, who does a better job at building a line to suit you; the company or you?
The real bummer about PBS is the impact on staffing and hence things like advancement. But negative QOL doesn't even come on my radar.
I was at a carrier with antiquated line bidding that subsequently transitioned to PBS. The QOL improvement was vast and undeniable. I was bidding #8 of maybe 200 in a widebody international category, and my worst month to date was a 11 day Asian odyssey in 4 star+ hotels that filled the whole month. With a bit of luck I could work 11 or 12, pack 15+ behind it, and do the inverse the following month, creating a full month off in between. Sometimes, but not consistently, because my employer failed to create the ideal line for me each month, if you can imagine that! After PBS, I could structure similar but even better trips at intervals than made my neighbors think I never worked, assuming they overlooked the occasional 11 day absence. It was great. Then I was displaced to a category where I bid near the bottom. With the proper preferences, I secured commutable schedules right away and attained good QOL.
The guys senior to me had the advantage of more credit hours and their most desired days off, but I was happy with the fact that a bottom dweller could have some wishes filter down to him.
When PBS came along, we had already lost vacation conflict drops and some of the other bennies that are often-cited as the downfall of PBS. The efficiency gains for the company are certain, and particular monetary-enhancing techniques employed by pilots will disappear, but usually in trade from some other benefits that come along. Most months of the year, I do not have vacation. So line bidding benefits in a vacation month are rarely missed, and I'm unwilling to have every non-vacation month suck, just to look forward to an occasional vacation windfall. If you aren't senior, you're probably not getting the vacation you want anyhow. But your monthly schedule can potentially get much better down the seniority list with PBS. Combined with a reasonable schedule change system, enhancements made after schedules are published can greatly elevate your lifestyle or money. Savy pilots who learn all the rules, techniques and tricks and are willing to put in the work can live beyond their seniority level, both in the main bid and during later trades, drops and swaps.
Ever hear anybody say "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going?" Or
"that crazy Fifi jet is scary." Most pilots emitting such comments have never flown an Airbus (and don't care about having a place to eat or their hearing!!!) I'd say the same principal applies to those who malign the notion of PBS. I've never heard of an on-property movement to revert back to line bidding at any carrier after PBS conversion!!! Just my two cents; PBS is not all bad. Certainly not worth wasting negotiating capital trying to avoid it.
The real bummer about PBS is the impact on staffing and hence things like advancement. But negative QOL doesn't even come on my radar.
I was at a carrier with antiquated line bidding that subsequently transitioned to PBS. The QOL improvement was vast and undeniable. I was bidding #8 of maybe 200 in a widebody international category, and my worst month to date was a 11 day Asian odyssey in 4 star+ hotels that filled the whole month. With a bit of luck I could work 11 or 12, pack 15+ behind it, and do the inverse the following month, creating a full month off in between. Sometimes, but not consistently, because my employer failed to create the ideal line for me each month, if you can imagine that! After PBS, I could structure similar but even better trips at intervals than made my neighbors think I never worked, assuming they overlooked the occasional 11 day absence. It was great. Then I was displaced to a category where I bid near the bottom. With the proper preferences, I secured commutable schedules right away and attained good QOL.
The guys senior to me had the advantage of more credit hours and their most desired days off, but I was happy with the fact that a bottom dweller could have some wishes filter down to him.
When PBS came along, we had already lost vacation conflict drops and some of the other bennies that are often-cited as the downfall of PBS. The efficiency gains for the company are certain, and particular monetary-enhancing techniques employed by pilots will disappear, but usually in trade from some other benefits that come along. Most months of the year, I do not have vacation. So line bidding benefits in a vacation month are rarely missed, and I'm unwilling to have every non-vacation month suck, just to look forward to an occasional vacation windfall. If you aren't senior, you're probably not getting the vacation you want anyhow. But your monthly schedule can potentially get much better down the seniority list with PBS. Combined with a reasonable schedule change system, enhancements made after schedules are published can greatly elevate your lifestyle or money. Savy pilots who learn all the rules, techniques and tricks and are willing to put in the work can live beyond their seniority level, both in the main bid and during later trades, drops and swaps.
Ever hear anybody say "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going?" Or
"that crazy Fifi jet is scary." Most pilots emitting such comments have never flown an Airbus (and don't care about having a place to eat or their hearing!!!) I'd say the same principal applies to those who malign the notion of PBS. I've never heard of an on-property movement to revert back to line bidding at any carrier after PBS conversion!!! Just my two cents; PBS is not all bad. Certainly not worth wasting negotiating capital trying to avoid it.
11-07-2017, 12:23 AM
#132
captain scarlet
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Who needs to know?
Posts: 170
PBS does not work as favorably with four 4day trips, as with one 11day.
At 4% seniority, PBS may be decent, anything below top 25-30% gets leftovers.
We have NOT given up our QOL yet, as in the posters case.
PBS would impact training months(2-3) and vac months(2-5)
A well written, detailed LOA which would restrict PBS to all our CBA provisions and controlled by our scheduling committee, may not be worth losing negotiating capital.
However that's NOT what Bob has in mind...
11-07-2017, 03:06 AM
#133
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Bus FO
Posts: 35
I have QOL. With several hundred or thousand trips to distribute, who does a better job at building a line to suit you; the company or you?
The real bummer about PBS is the impact on staffing and hence things like advancement. But negative QOL doesn't even come on my radar.
The real bummer about PBS is the impact on staffing and hence things like advancement. But negative QOL doesn't even come on my radar.
(I hope they don’t label you a company troll, 😂🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
11-07-2017, 03:20 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 127
I have QOL. With several hundred or thousand trips to distribute, who does a better job at building a line to suit you; the company or you?
The real bummer about PBS is the impact on staffing and hence things like advancement. But negative QOL doesn't even come on my radar.
I was at a carrier with antiquated line bidding that subsequently transitioned to PBS. The QOL improvement was vast and undeniable. I was bidding #8 of maybe 200 in a widebody international category, and my worst month to date was a 11 day Asian odyssey in 4 star+ hotels that filled the whole month. With a bit of luck I could work 11 or 12, pack 15+ behind it, and do the inverse the following month, creating a full month off in between. Sometimes, but not consistently, because my employer failed to create the ideal line for me each month, if you can imagine that! After PBS, I could structure similar but even better trips at intervals than made my neighbors think I never worked, assuming they overlooked the occasional 11 day absence. It was great. Then I was displaced to a category where I bid near the bottom. With the proper preferences, I secured commutable schedules right away and attained good QOL.
The guys senior to me had the advantage of more credit hours and their most desired days off, but I was happy with the fact that a bottom dweller could have some wishes filter down to him.
When PBS came along, we had already lost vacation conflict drops and some of the other bennies that are often-cited as the downfall of PBS. The efficiency gains for the company are certain, and particular monetary-enhancing techniques employed by pilots will disappear, but usually in trade from some other benefits that come along. Most months of the year, I do not have vacation. So line bidding benefits in a vacation month are rarely missed, and I'm unwilling to have every non-vacation month suck, just to look forward to an occasional vacation windfall. If you aren't senior, you're probably not getting the vacation you want anyhow. But your monthly schedule can potentially get much better down the seniority list with PBS. Combined with a reasonable schedule change system, enhancements made after schedules are published can greatly elevate your lifestyle or money. Savy pilots who learn all the rules, techniques and tricks and are willing to put in the work can live beyond their seniority level, both in the main bid and during later trades, drops and swaps.
Ever hear anybody say "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going?" Or
"that crazy Fifi jet is scary." Most pilots emitting such comments have never flown an Airbus (and don't care about having a place to eat or their hearing!!!) I'd say the same principal applies to those who malign the notion of PBS. I've never heard of an on-property movement to revert back to line bidding at any carrier after PBS conversion!!! Just my two cents; PBS is not all bad. Certainly not worth wasting negotiating capital trying to avoid it.
The real bummer about PBS is the impact on staffing and hence things like advancement. But negative QOL doesn't even come on my radar.
I was at a carrier with antiquated line bidding that subsequently transitioned to PBS. The QOL improvement was vast and undeniable. I was bidding #8 of maybe 200 in a widebody international category, and my worst month to date was a 11 day Asian odyssey in 4 star+ hotels that filled the whole month. With a bit of luck I could work 11 or 12, pack 15+ behind it, and do the inverse the following month, creating a full month off in between. Sometimes, but not consistently, because my employer failed to create the ideal line for me each month, if you can imagine that! After PBS, I could structure similar but even better trips at intervals than made my neighbors think I never worked, assuming they overlooked the occasional 11 day absence. It was great. Then I was displaced to a category where I bid near the bottom. With the proper preferences, I secured commutable schedules right away and attained good QOL.
The guys senior to me had the advantage of more credit hours and their most desired days off, but I was happy with the fact that a bottom dweller could have some wishes filter down to him.
When PBS came along, we had already lost vacation conflict drops and some of the other bennies that are often-cited as the downfall of PBS. The efficiency gains for the company are certain, and particular monetary-enhancing techniques employed by pilots will disappear, but usually in trade from some other benefits that come along. Most months of the year, I do not have vacation. So line bidding benefits in a vacation month are rarely missed, and I'm unwilling to have every non-vacation month suck, just to look forward to an occasional vacation windfall. If you aren't senior, you're probably not getting the vacation you want anyhow. But your monthly schedule can potentially get much better down the seniority list with PBS. Combined with a reasonable schedule change system, enhancements made after schedules are published can greatly elevate your lifestyle or money. Savy pilots who learn all the rules, techniques and tricks and are willing to put in the work can live beyond their seniority level, both in the main bid and during later trades, drops and swaps.
Ever hear anybody say "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going?" Or
"that crazy Fifi jet is scary." Most pilots emitting such comments have never flown an Airbus (and don't care about having a place to eat or their hearing!!!) I'd say the same principal applies to those who malign the notion of PBS. I've never heard of an on-property movement to revert back to line bidding at any carrier after PBS conversion!!! Just my two cents; PBS is not all bad. Certainly not worth wasting negotiating capital trying to avoid it.
Hahhahahhahhaa. You were bidding number 8 out of 200 ON A WIDE BODY.
No wonder PBS worked out so well for you.
Anyways, still waiting on scope, LTD, no givebacks on work rules and an industry leading pay before I would even give PBS consideration. Oh yeah, and PBS will have to come with a novel size booklet that spells out specifically what will and will not be allowed (SPA ALPA approved) before implementation.
Efficiency gained by PBS is worth 10s of millions of dollars. That money needs to come our way.
11-07-2017, 03:24 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 127
11-07-2017, 03:59 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Staffing! Ever been the last guy to get furloughed? Ever been one away from holding your base of choice for a decade? Ever been one away from upgrade for a decade? Pbs or line bidding would change those scenarios depending on which you currently have. They would litterally change your life.
11-07-2017, 06:27 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 765
What's wrong with trip drops? They prob work harder when they are doing union work than on a trip! I know when I volunteer (no trip drop) the days are exhausting
11-07-2017, 07:47 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,932
The above experience is not a good indicator of how PBS would apply to Spirit.
PBS does not work as favorably with four 4day trips, as with one 11day.
At 4% seniority, PBS may be decent, anything below top 25-30% gets leftovers.
We have NOT given up our QOL yet, as in the posters case.
PBS would impact training months(2-3) and vac months(2-5)
A well written, detailed LOA which would restrict PBS to all our CBA provisions and controlled by our scheduling committee, may not be worth losing negotiating capital.
However that's NOT what Bob has in mind...
PBS does not work as favorably with four 4day trips, as with one 11day.
At 4% seniority, PBS may be decent, anything below top 25-30% gets leftovers.
We have NOT given up our QOL yet, as in the posters case.
PBS would impact training months(2-3) and vac months(2-5)
A well written, detailed LOA which would restrict PBS to all our CBA provisions and controlled by our scheduling committee, may not be worth losing negotiating capital.
However that's NOT what Bob has in mind...
Have you been iced by the mediator? The gamble one can take is say we’ll be released into self help/cool 30 day. But the company has proposed a $70/hr raise for 5th yr CAs and $50 at top rate at DOS, for giving up line bidding and doing PBS. Not sure how a mediator would feel about saying a 52% pay increase for the 5th yr CA is a company that’s being unreasonable.
I get it though, there are legitimate gripes, scope, good LTD, etc. I just hope you guys get a good contract sooner rather than later.
11-07-2017, 08:30 AM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Percentage is irrelevant. It’s below the industry and the only reason it is is because Spirit has chosen to demand five year CBAs and countless years of negotiations. The percentage gap only grows because they choose to stall and then think they can get off cheap in the by saying well look at what a big increase it is. It’s a con game
And yeah, without scope and real LTD it doesn’t matter if it’s a 500% increase because it’s garbage
And yeah, without scope and real LTD it doesn’t matter if it’s a 500% increase because it’s garbage
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