national mediation board
09-02-2017, 02:47 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 316
The industry:
Delta
United
American
Alaska/Virgin (actively negotiating and will see an arbitrated contract
in a month so we are making assumptions on what
they will get)
Jetblue (actively negotiating so again we are not going to use current
compensation but make the assumption they will secure large
raises as they've historically been close to the legacies)
Not included:
Frontier (bankruptcy contract and actively negotiating. We don't
include them because coming from bankruptcy you don't
know where they will land and you obviously can't compare a
bankruptcy contract to spirit that has no idea what to do with
all the money.)
Allegiant (for the most part not a competitor as we they don't fly a
similar route map. We are using airlines with the same
planes on the same routes.)
You can't include current compensation from airlines that are negotiating at the same time. It's very reasonable to assume they are negotiating and will secure the same thing we are so you have to use that in the analysis. To prove we were being fair we were using current Alaska and Virgin compensation until the merger and their expedited negotiation process because Virgin was just starting the process on a first contract and to my knowledge Alaska wasn't negotiating yet. Spirit management messed up by allowing the industry to climb again with that merger and as a result our ask went up.
Speaking of the ask:
Industry standard or not if you choose to not agree with our "industry", it is not only affordable it is profitable and spirit could agree to every last word we have proposed and then some and not have to change a thing about how they do business. It's the definition of reasonable. What's unreasonable is expecting a highly skilled workforce that is the backbone of your business to come to work for far less compensation than those at your competition. It's not only unreasonable it's bad management and the shareholders and the board are going to see that sooner or later. Hopefully it's not too late. One thing is for certain, we aren't taking less than industry standard and will walk when the time comes if need be.
Delta
United
American
Alaska/Virgin (actively negotiating and will see an arbitrated contract
in a month so we are making assumptions on what
they will get)
Jetblue (actively negotiating so again we are not going to use current
compensation but make the assumption they will secure large
raises as they've historically been close to the legacies)
Not included:
Frontier (bankruptcy contract and actively negotiating. We don't
include them because coming from bankruptcy you don't
know where they will land and you obviously can't compare a
bankruptcy contract to spirit that has no idea what to do with
all the money.)
Allegiant (for the most part not a competitor as we they don't fly a
similar route map. We are using airlines with the same
planes on the same routes.)
You can't include current compensation from airlines that are negotiating at the same time. It's very reasonable to assume they are negotiating and will secure the same thing we are so you have to use that in the analysis. To prove we were being fair we were using current Alaska and Virgin compensation until the merger and their expedited negotiation process because Virgin was just starting the process on a first contract and to my knowledge Alaska wasn't negotiating yet. Spirit management messed up by allowing the industry to climb again with that merger and as a result our ask went up.
Speaking of the ask:
Industry standard or not if you choose to not agree with our "industry", it is not only affordable it is profitable and spirit could agree to every last word we have proposed and then some and not have to change a thing about how they do business. It's the definition of reasonable. What's unreasonable is expecting a highly skilled workforce that is the backbone of your business to come to work for far less compensation than those at your competition. It's not only unreasonable it's bad management and the shareholders and the board are going to see that sooner or later. Hopefully it's not too late. One thing is for certain, we aren't taking less than industry standard and will walk when the time comes if need be.
What's funny though is that I'd wager the house that IF Frontier, Allegiant, Sun Country, Miami Air, JetBlue..etc had far higher compensation than the legacies for whatever reason, you'd be screaming that Spirit is nothing like the hub/spoke of the legacies, have a different revenue structure...blah blah blah and should be peered among those careers. And I'd think that case would be more convincing. Whatever happened to pilots are pilots and we all do the same job? I guess that's not applicable when it doesn't fit your narrative.
You'd don't get paid something because your employer can afford it and still be profitable. That's not how it works.
Time to copy and paste this on the other thread
09-02-2017, 02:58 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 195
What's funny though is that I'd wager the house that IF Frontier, Allegiant, Sun Country, Miami Air, JetBlue..etc had far higher compensation than the legacies for whatever reason, you'd be screaming that Spirit is nothing like the hub/spoke of the legacies, have a different revenue structure...blah blah blah and should be peered among those careers. And I'd think that case would be more convincing. Whatever happened to pilots are pilots and we all do the same job? I guess that's not applicable when it doesn't fit your narrative.
You'd don't get paid something because your employer can afford it and still be profitable. That's not how it works.
Time to copy and paste this on the other thread
You'd don't get paid something because your employer can afford it and still be profitable. That's not how it works.
Time to copy and paste this on the other thread
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09-02-2017, 03:03 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Position: Discount Pilot
Posts: 183
You really are a piece of work. Can you not take a hint? Go away. Your opinion is that of a management stooge. Go work on your resume so you can be a big boy ceo instead of the lackey intern playing on internet web boards...
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I can play that game too! Buzz off!
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09-02-2017, 03:38 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,542
Its pretty obvious who the management trolls are.
No sane airline pilot questions those who are demanding Industry Standard. Real ALPA brothers & Sisters try to raise each other up, not bring each other down or manage expecations.
No sane airline pilot questions those who are demanding Industry Standard. Real ALPA brothers & Sisters try to raise each other up, not bring each other down or manage expecations.
09-02-2017, 09:12 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
What's funny though is that I'd wager the house that IF Frontier, Allegiant, Sun Country, Miami Air, JetBlue..etc had far higher compensation than the legacies for whatever reason, you'd be screaming that Spirit is nothing like the hub/spoke of the legacies, have a different revenue structure...blah blah blah and should be peered among those careers. And I'd think that case would be more convincing. Whatever happened to pilots are pilots and we all do the same job? I guess that's not applicable when it doesn't fit your narrative.
You'd don't get paid something because your employer can afford it and still be profitable. That's not how it works.
Time to copy and paste this on the other thread
You'd don't get paid something because your employer can afford it and still be profitable. That's not how it works.
Time to copy and paste this on the other thread
That's not how it works
Spend a dollar to save a penny will get you out of business
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