FlyGuy2002

He's not saying what he will or won't vote for. He in fact said he had a number in his head of what he's looking for and then will vote accordingly .. and the point i think he's trying to make is if the number they offer you is let's say 40k.. who really cares if they call it retro, bonus, spirit pilot appreciation money, boat down payment fun money Fund or what.. I'm in agreement with him.. I know what I'm looking for in the contract in it's entiriety... when it comes out I'll
Analazye the situation.. and go from there.. and between the surveys, and conversations the NC knows what we will or not vote for ... they've relayed that to management for 2 years now... it's not a state secret

Planepirate

I agree we should not negotiate in public.

I'll say it this way: I expect full retro. Management can label it whatever name they want, but I expect it in our TA.

DirtHead

If management wanted the pilots to get a new contract, they would have presented one two years ago. As much as I want to believe Bendo and Bob have had a sudden change of heart and want to share their millions with the pilots, I'm simply not buying it. The extra sessions requested by the company are a another delay tactic, designed to placate the pilot group through the holiday transition over the 4th. Another operational meltdown over a holiday weekend would be a black eye to the company the board would no longer be able to ignore, and our fearless leaders would be searching the classified ads. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear this one's gonna be decided in a strike some years down the road.

AllOva736

I think you could be right for the wrong reasons. They won't offer us a contract due change of heart, that's a no brainer but they might want a contract for us because if they know if we can't keep or attract people in the very near future things might hit the fan in a major way. keeping this place running smoothly is preservation of self as far as the brass is concerned. They want to maximize their pay today but I'm sure they still want to get paid tomorrow.

Ed Force One

We should all know this by now, but I'll lay it out in case you don't.

RETRO is the only monetary motivation that the company has to not drag this out for all eternity. If 100% retro is paid, then from a strictly pay perspective it's almost as if the new contract had been reached on opening day. And if that's the case, then perhaps it motivates them a little more to reach an agreement to offset things like attrition, morale, or the inability to attract qualified applicants to begin with.

A signing bonus is just that. Money that can be paid out whenever, giving the company every motivation to prolong the old contract.

Granted, it's not that simple. There are other ways in which the company profits, such as prolonging poor trip and duty rigs, rest requirements etc.

To not ask for full retro is a failure on ALPA National's part, not just on our MEC. I am of the mindset that every contract signed should include 100% retro. Making 100% retro pay "Industry Standard" will go a long ways towards helping out *ALL* pilot groups in the future.

As long as we are handcuffed to the outdated *RAILWAY* Labor Act, this is one of very few weapons that we have. The fact that some of us don't know this is proof enough that change is needed.

Dumpsterflyer

To simplify what you are saying... without retro we pay for our own raise.

Planepirate

Obviously you don't understand the point I'm trying to make. I would hope everyone understands the difference between retro and a signing bonus. It's not quantum physics. Of course neither was my point... which you don't get. For the sake of not beating a dead horse, let's just say I agree with you.

navigatro

Don't be short sighted, it's semantics.

Who cares if they call it retro or signing bonus.

Count the $$$.

If it is enough, then it is enough.

If not, it isn't.

FLYBOYMATTHEW

Is retro compensation taxed at the same higher rate that bonus pay is taxed at, or is at at your usual income tax rate?

Ed Force One

It does matter. Even if it's a signing bonus that is the exact same dollar amount as 100% Retro, it still matters.

It's about setting a precedent. For all future negotiations for all Pilot Groups. It's about making 100% Retro industry standard.

If it's labeled as a "signing bonus," then the concept of signing bonuses continue to be industry standard. In the future, managements can offer whatever sub-standard bonuses they want, because that's the way it's always been done. Were NK pilots happy with their previous signing bonus? I wasn't here yet, but I get the impression that you weren't. Were all you ex-regional pilots happy with your signing bonus after a prolonged 5-8 year negotiation and whipsaw process?

If Retro becomes standard, then more pilot groups can demand it with less pushback from the company.

Why is this so hard to understand?