Our NewHire Failure rate hovering above 5%
10-09-2017, 05:53 AM
#71
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Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 37
The real failure ailure right is nearly 10% and the reason?, well....................... think about. Our training hasn't changed, neither has the airplane we fly. We pretty much have the same instructors (who are all AWESOME, I genuinely mean that) so whats left?
that's right, the experience of the new hire. Guys with low time etc.............. Its really not that complicated, when regional airlines pay more and have a flow/interview opportunity, why would someone come to an airline like Spirit? High Fives don't pay the mortgage.....................
that's right, the experience of the new hire. Guys with low time etc.............. Its really not that complicated, when regional airlines pay more and have a flow/interview opportunity, why would someone come to an airline like Spirit? High Fives don't pay the mortgage.....................
Its been said over and over; this training program was not made for a low timer and/or someone who has never been through a 121 training program. There are exceptions, just as some fail who have plenty of 121 time and experience, but numbers don't lie
The real failure rate would be much higher IF Spirit actually fired/removed pilots in training using the same benchmarks as they did 2,3, 4 years ago. New hires are not only getting extra sims, but extra ground school after the bust their oral.
As far as the finished product goes once it hits the flight line; well you can guess what we are dealing with.
10-09-2017, 06:07 AM
#72
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 85
Yup, when everything else remains the same, what has changed, the applicant.
Its been said over and over; this training program was not made for a low timer and/or someone who has never been through a 121 training program. There are exceptions, just as some fail who have plenty of 121 time and experience, but numbers don't lie
The real failure rate would be much higher IF Spirit actually fired/removed pilots in training using the same benchmarks as they did 2,3, 4 years ago. New hires are not only getting extra sims, but extra ground school after the bust their oral.
As far as the finished product goes once it hits the flight line; well you can guess what we are dealing with.
Its been said over and over; this training program was not made for a low timer and/or someone who has never been through a 121 training program. There are exceptions, just as some fail who have plenty of 121 time and experience, but numbers don't lie
The real failure rate would be much higher IF Spirit actually fired/removed pilots in training using the same benchmarks as they did 2,3, 4 years ago. New hires are not only getting extra sims, but extra ground school after the bust their oral.
As far as the finished product goes once it hits the flight line; well you can guess what we are dealing with.
-Requirements to be a ground instructor are sad. No Airbus time, really? College degree and 2 years of CFI experience.
Doesn't Spirit have 2000-3000 TT requirement?
Last edited by CRJoperator; 10-09-2017 at 06:22 AM.
10-09-2017, 06:22 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,542
It's has very little to do with the applicants. It has everything to do with the training department (director of training and down). Almost every airline hires pilots with low time (especially military guys). So why is the failure so high at Spirit? Simple, poorly structured training program.
-Requirements to be a ground instructor are sad. No Airbus time, really? College degree and 2 years of CFI experience.
Doesn't Spirit have 4000 TT requirement?
-Requirements to be a ground instructor are sad. No Airbus time, really? College degree and 2 years of CFI experience.
Doesn't Spirit have 4000 TT requirement?
Lol maybe years ago, last guy I flew with had 2,000hrs TT
10-09-2017, 06:53 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 323
10-09-2017, 08:00 AM
#76
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Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 56
I’ve been through structured training my entire career. Part 141 school, some really good 135 (a few bad ones) and 2 121 programs. I’ve been through upgrade at previous jobs, including 1 of the 121 carriers. I’ve never failed any of them, until Spirit. This is the most disorganized mess I’ve ever seen anywhere. Instructors (some, not all) are arrogant pricks with something to prove. No structure to the program at all. Stay away from this mess unless you’re will to risk a bust. You will be on your own to learn the airplane, they don’t teach anything other than how to calculate a CDP for the LOC approach. Oh, and you get to play in the pool one day
10-09-2017, 10:19 AM
#77
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Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320
Posts: 76
I’ve been through structured training my entire career. Part 141 school, some really good 135 (a few bad ones) and 2 121 programs. I’ve been through upgrade at previous jobs, including 1 of the 121 carriers. I’ve never failed any of them, until Spirit. This is the most disorganized mess I’ve ever seen anywhere. Instructors (some, not all) are arrogant pricks with something to prove. No structure to the program at all. Stay away from this mess unless you’re will to risk a bust. You will be on your own to learn the airplane, they don’t teach anything other than how to calculate a CDP for the LOC approach. Oh, and you get to play in the pool one day
Maybe the training has changed since I have went through but you might be mad because you busted. I've done 141, 135, 121 also and although the training was fast and expectations high my entire class studied like crazy and we all passed. In fact we prepared so well that I thought the oral exam was quite easy. The line pilot instructors were very knowledgeable but did not hold hands. Did you retrain and make it?
10-09-2017, 10:31 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
I think the training program is garbage and always has been. Experienced folks generally figured out how to get through it. It's also why spirit used to highly descriminate against 135 applicants that were used to training as a customer.
Now we hire many 135 pilots many with no degree so their opportunities elsewhere are limited. We also now hire many low time rj FOs that have only been through 121 initial at a regional where you get many sims and spoon fed systems. I wish we did that here but we don't. The 7-10yr FO has no problem and has been around long enough to make it work. We are hiring guys that came from a piston and went to an rj for a year or less. Many of the current applicants not only struggle through training but are somewhat more challenging to fly with. Some not all. They struggle with decision making because they haven't had many of the experiences applicants several years ago came in with as prerequisites.
The other problem which has no reflection on how they do their job or get through training is that some are so young that they have no skin in the game financially. No family, no mortgage, no college fund, no life insurance. Saying dumb crap like YOLO. No concept of what a good professional living is. I know I didn't at 24.
Some of the young guys fly great but some have no business flying a jet with 200 people in the back.
Now we hire many 135 pilots many with no degree so their opportunities elsewhere are limited. We also now hire many low time rj FOs that have only been through 121 initial at a regional where you get many sims and spoon fed systems. I wish we did that here but we don't. The 7-10yr FO has no problem and has been around long enough to make it work. We are hiring guys that came from a piston and went to an rj for a year or less. Many of the current applicants not only struggle through training but are somewhat more challenging to fly with. Some not all. They struggle with decision making because they haven't had many of the experiences applicants several years ago came in with as prerequisites.
The other problem which has no reflection on how they do their job or get through training is that some are so young that they have no skin in the game financially. No family, no mortgage, no college fund, no life insurance. Saying dumb crap like YOLO. No concept of what a good professional living is. I know I didn't at 24.
Some of the young guys fly great but some have no business flying a jet with 200 people in the back.
10-09-2017, 11:56 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,542
I think the training program is garbage and always has been. Experienced folks generally figured out how to get through it. It's also why spirit used to highly descriminate against 135 applicants that were used to training as a customer.
Now we hire many 135 pilots many with no degree so their opportunities elsewhere are limited. We also now hire many low time rj FOs that have only been through 121 initial at a regional where you get many sims and spoon fed systems. I wish we did that here but we don't. The 7-10yr FO has no problem and has been around long enough to make it work. We are hiring guys that came from a piston and went to an rj for a year or less. Many of the current applicants not only struggle through training but are somewhat more challenging to fly with. Some not all. They struggle with decision making because they haven't had many of the experiences applicants several years ago came in with as prerequisites.
The other problem which has no reflection on how they do their job or get through training is that some are so young that they have no skin in the game financially. No family, no mortgage, no college fund, no life insurance. Saying dumb crap like YOLO. No concept of what a good professional living is. I know I didn't at 24.
Some of the young guys fly great but some have no business flying a jet with 200 people in the back.
Now we hire many 135 pilots many with no degree so their opportunities elsewhere are limited. We also now hire many low time rj FOs that have only been through 121 initial at a regional where you get many sims and spoon fed systems. I wish we did that here but we don't. The 7-10yr FO has no problem and has been around long enough to make it work. We are hiring guys that came from a piston and went to an rj for a year or less. Many of the current applicants not only struggle through training but are somewhat more challenging to fly with. Some not all. They struggle with decision making because they haven't had many of the experiences applicants several years ago came in with as prerequisites.
The other problem which has no reflection on how they do their job or get through training is that some are so young that they have no skin in the game financially. No family, no mortgage, no college fund, no life insurance. Saying dumb crap like YOLO. No concept of what a good professional living is. I know I didn't at 24.
Some of the young guys fly great but some have no business flying a jet with 200 people in the back.
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