WHACKMASTER

Spoke to Jody Reven today and apparently the company agreed today to fix the reserve pay implementation issue. It's some sort of convoluted fix but he said that it could potentially work out to our benefit even more however the "fix" won't start until December.

Smooth at FL450

December seems more reasonable than April...looking forward to more updates before I come to any conclusions!

madduck

As much as I want this to be true I'm not as confident in our strength here as I am if we vote this down. If, if, if...this was a flat out company screw up what's to stop them from approaching the mediator, arbitrator, judge, some presiding official, saying hey, we screwed up, can ya help us fix this.

If this were to go to court what's to say the company may get a slap on the wrist for the screw up vs us getting a boatload of leverage? The judge and atty's get to decide the penalty for the screw up and they don't have any skin in the game.

I hope this is voted down. If not, the remainder of my career here will be substandard for sure. We've never had this kind of leverage before, it will be a real long time before it happens again.

WHACKMASTER

EXACTLY! Better to get it right now than risk any of it to judges, arbitrators or even company sympathizing SWAPA officials that may hold office in the future.

Let's lock in airtight language now while we have strong leverage and not assume that we can just do it later. Big mistake.

madduck

the lack of testicular fortitude here is still quite amazing.
a guy at my gym just got hired with delta, his final week of training is the week. he's asked some of the guys in the training dept, who are online pilots, what they think will happen with their contract. his instructor said DAL better sweeten the pot some more. my bud asked if the, the instr., though would happen if they don't. instructor dude said, well, we'll just have to strike.

the fuc(king kool-aid drinkers, and flat out spineless POS's here, amaze me.

flyguy81

Lol. Delta isn't striking. Ever. Neither is SWA. My 2000 pilot regional couldn't strike and you think the NMB will let 2 of the biggest airlines in the country strike? Keep dreaming.

Sr. Barco

If you are a SWA pilot read Howard's posts on PPRuNe about this very subject. Below is a link to it. It's post #104. I've posted the body below. For those who don't know him he's a 30+ year Captain at SWA and a practicing aviation attorney. I trust his opinion much more than any unknown Forum Warrior.

PPRuNe Forums

For those that say we should strike or prepare,

Let me say this as bluntly as I can. We will not be allowed to strike. First time. Second time, unlikely with Congress possibly imposing a contract. Not just my opinion, but I share it with people way more experienced than me.

Now having said that, I get the symbolic importance of strike votes and am a proponent for strike centers and more movement in that area.

What I think many of you are forgetting when you tout strike prep and votes is that today's govt under today's RLA isn't going to let a big 4 carrier go out. BTW, this isn't a news flash to GK and his crew. Read the preamble to the RLA and its intent....to prevent the disruption of interstate commerce. It sux, but that is today's reality...IMO and others.

So, don't count on real thrust from an engine that won't be their when you need it.

I saw someone asking about folks credentials in weighing opinions in a post a while back and I think that is a fair point....at this point. Everyone knows who I am and my background. Hopefully, you folks know Don Skiados' and Jalmer Johnson's backgrounds on running strikes for ALPA over their 35 years.

You guys that are saying we should have done X or Y are giving opinions and that is great....keep doing it, but there is a BUT.

Why should I or any reader give your opinion weight unless you can make an argument that is supported by a lot of fact and analysis without knowing how much real RLA negotiating and strike prep you have? I say this not to be a dick, but it is important.

In our courts, judges will not allow experts to testify if they are not true experts as they offer opinions that impact juries. This is a safeguard with a good reason. The court acts as the gatekeeper. So, when I read some of the stuff on the forums that I know is not reality, it worries me if people buy into and make a less informed decision based on it.

I am not asking anyone to out themselves, but if you don't....then you have to win us over with more than speculation. Otherwise, I am going to tend to listen to the guys/gals making good factual arguments.

So, as to strike prep and going on strike.....take us through it. Step by step. And don't put up some google RLA chart that is years old (before the Big 4). Will Delta be allowed to strike? Was Allegiant? How about American before the big 4? Is a strike 10 years ago at a regional a useful example today under the Big 4 environment (oligopoly)?

I don't know the answers to these questions with certainty, but neither do any of our posters. I do know what Don Skiados and Jalmer Johnson think and your BoD has acted with their advice in mind.

If you cannot really strike, how big a threat is that to knowledgeable managers with their armies of consultants? Why do you think I have been wanting to change the RLA?

Finally, I have seen the polling including the strike polling and I think Jon Weaks has done a lot with what he has to work with. Can we grow and do more? Yes. Will we need to do that now. We will see. If so, we will go for it with all the gusto we can muster.

I am not trying to pick on anyone, but folks be careful what set of opinions you buy into. Make an informed decision based on your own assessment of things.

I am sure I will take some hits on this post and that's ok. Everyone knows my background.

WHACKMASTER

Absolutely agree. There is no way the company that moves the most amount of Americans is going to be allowed to strike. We're too essential of an artery in the transportation system. A strike is not where our leverage lies.

Omar 111

Delta guy here,

Don't know who your buddy is, but I'm a 20 year Delta guy. Out of my friends around same seniority, and talking with my FO's in the lounge, I'd say it's running 75% pass as is. OBTW-nobody at Delta in their right mind thinks we'll ever be released to strike.

Omar

shoelu

I'm still on the fence and undecided at this point. Most likely I will try and determine how JW and the Negotiating Committee will vote and take clues from those with much more info and insight than I am privy to.

My questions at this point points to which decision will leave SWAPA with the most leverage going forward. It seems to me that since the infamous "white list" is missing, that renders our codeshare virtually the same as it is now. I realize we are still lagging in several areas from the big four, but we have moved much closer without giving up most of our tight scope language.

When the new Amadeus system comes on line next year, most of its capabilities will go unrealized without codeshare agreements. The current language of TA2 seems to greatly limit potential partners and give the union huge power to restrict unwanted partnerships.

We have been playing catch up for several years and my ultimate goal has always been catching up without destroying our section 1 language. It seems we may have gotten most of the way there while still keeping tight scope control and going forward holding the keys to unlocking the revenue streams available with the new and improved reservation system. This is leverage going forward.