at6d

FWIW, I heard earlier in the hiring of 2015 there were at least 1000 applicants with the type...can't back it up with stats.

dfwflyboy

Those same 1000 are in UAL, DAL, AA. The 1000tpic will be dropped soon. Prob this year. Upgrade is still 18+ years there?

Burton78

You seem to have all the facts. Are you still trying to get a major to notice you?

SWA Bubba

No, it's never been 18 years. Pessimists have been saying that for the last five years or more, and it's never been true. That number was based on only replacing retirements, exactly one for one, without any regard for anything else. Which, in practice, is never the case. It doesn't include growth, or things like increased seniority and age of the pilot group (more vacation weeks needing covering, more sick calls, medical leaves, etc), or hiring for any other changes in FARs, turn times, and so on. For instance, we only have 166 age-65 retirements in 2016, but we're hiring 600 for the year.

The guys upgrading right now for next month's (February) vacancy bid are at 9-1/2 to 10 years' seniority, pretty much what upgrade has been for years now.

Of course the standard disclaimer applies: what's happening this year may not always be indicative of what happens in future years. Yadda, yadda. But that's how it's been, despite the naysayers.

Bubba

Stitches

For those on the outside looking in, this is one of those trolling posts that is probably technically correct but also very misleading all at the same time. How can that be?

Regarding the type, look back at some previous posts and the large majority of guys in class now still have the type prior to starting at swa. Some don't and that number will probably increase as time goes on. For guys in class today that have it, it's likely they would have been hired without it but they would also likely have started several/many classes later. I won't advise anyone to go out and get one anymore but if you already have it youre still more likely to get hired sooner and I think you'll agree after the first year that it paid for itself.

I agree that like the type requirement of old, at some point the 1000 tpic requirement will be reduced as well. BUT, and this is a very big but, I think the only guys hired without 1000 pic are going to be mil dudes. Not trying to start a civ vs. mil debate but look at the agerage stats of guys hired today. Avg mil guy has 1500-2500 pic with 3000-4000 total hours. Civilian guys getting hired have about double that. The reality of the military today is that due to sequestration and a host of other factors, flight hours are down. I predict the people dept will keep the current ratio of civ/mil in the future so you will probably see the average stats drop for both and some mil guys may squeak in with less than 1000 tpic.

When I was hired 3 years ago I was told that upgrade was 20 years, that I'd never fly international, and that I'd be stuck in Oakland on reserve for at least 2-3 years. Well I've flown international, was in Oakland for only a month and off reserve (in an east base) 6 months later. The upgrade time remains to be seen but guys at swa have been upgrading when they hit 58% seniority pretty consistently since I've been here, which as SWA Bubba said has been around 10 years or so. I think 10 years from now that number will slowly creep up to around 12-13 years based on retirements, a very modest (1-2%) growth rate and a host of other factors. If being the man in the left seat is where it's at for you then I'd tell you to go to a legacy for a quicker upgrade, however at today's work rules and pay rates a 6 yr line holding FO at SWA can do as good or better than a 6yr Delta reserve narrow body captain with a much better qol.

ZapBrannigan

I think you had me until the end Stitches. If (and I think it's s big if) the SW FO does better than the DAL Captain it means that FO will be busting his rear to pick up extra flying, hopefully at premium. When he isn't working he will be on CWA trying to move things around so he can pick up. The Delta guy will be capped which almost guarantees he will fly a fraction as much as the SW guy and his QOL will be much better by virtue of that. It also suggests that Delta isn't going to get a contract that blows us out of the water. I believe they will achieve an impressive package and, since they don't need to contribute 10% in order to maximize their retirement they'll always stay out in front of us with regard to take home pay even if our pay rates were identical.

SW is a lot of good things, but it just can't be compared to Delta especially our right seat to their left.

Stitches

Zap, that's a fair point. I should have been more specific about referring to the Delta Jr. reserve NYC based capt. I've heard plenty of horror stories from my Delta buds who know exactly what that kind of lifestyle entails and i can promise you that qol is not better than a mid level swa FO. I did the math and the break even point is around 130tfp, that's not all that difficult esp if the swa guy lives in base. Certainly not hard to do in 18 days which is what a delta capt on reserve will be doing.

It's funny how I keep hearing guys say that upgrade at Delta is 5-7 years but I ask all my buds over there if they have a bid in for capt in all seats/bases at 100% and the answer is always no.

There is a reason the MD88 NYC capt seat goes so junior there. There are also several THOUSAND guys at delta who stay in the right seat and bypass the earliest upgrade. You just don't see that many guys doing the same thing at swa.

FLY6584

We had a chief pilot tell us at our class lunch with Gary Kelley that the hiring department is looking at the 1000 TPIC requirement as the next req to go considering it's only a matter of time before the pool of qualified applicants dries up.

NotMrNiceGuy

When people talk about dropping the 1,000 TPIC requirement because the "qualified applicant pool is drying up", what exactly do they mean by this? I could understand doing this in a few years when the pickings are really slim. But right now there are literally thousands of applicants that meet the 1,000 TPIC requirement and don't hear anything back from SWA along with the rest. Many of those applicants have masters degrees, line check and chief pilot positions, and stellar GPAs from college. I would prefer the requirement stay in place to allow those with a family that have been grinding away for fifteen years in hopes of getting there dream job from being bypassed by a well connected twenty-four year old wunderkind. Just my two cents.

Sr. Barco

Hey guys I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Delta has pay caps. I will double check but my several of my friends there were getting 160 hours of pay a month all summer long via green slip.

Regarding the upgrade, just go to myseniority.com. I plugged in a relatively new hire then selected 1% growth which I think is all we can count on with larger airframes on the way and codeshare. The result was a 13 year upgrade. Just FWIW.