FlynDive

Ok... Fine... I get that (kinda). But isn't it possible for people to desire to work there AND support contract efforts?? Trust me.... I COMPLETELY understand frustration with protracted negotiations, and everyone I know that's applying would support the pilot group's contract goals.

Aurora8

Check out the "Recruitment Event" forum: lots of disappointed campers out there...

Otterbox

Of course they are... Even if you're only the 6th best career destination when it comes to pay and benefits, you're better than the regionals, ACMIs and Frontier and Spirit...

The question is how long guys will stick around before hopping to JetBlue, Alaska and Hawaiian due to a better domicile for them or a legacy/ Cargo outfit for the pay and retirement.

Unfortunately you guys are no longer THE career destination due to pay, retirement benefits and personnel retirements that the others are experiencing.

ANGFlight81

So you didn't get the invite?

ZapBrannigan

He isn't wrong.

Otterbox

No, but I also haven't applied...

Stitches

Right now we are losing around 7% of the new hires plus a handful of others to other airlines, mostly Delta, United, and FedEx.

I totally agree on your second point, BUT... I'd wager that pretty soon we will have fixed the pay and retirement benefits situation. Two out of three ain't bad when you pair them with our work rules. The contract situation appears to be nearing its conclusion.

FLY6584

I agree. Our schedule flexibility is impossible to beat anywhere. If we can just get our pay and retirement where it should be I would be more than happy to sacrifice upgrade time for the schedule flexibility we have.

If anyone is interested in hearing just how good we have it, in terms of schedule flexibility here at Southwest, reference this thread. I am far from a koolaid drinker and the first to tell someone how far we fall short in pay and retirement, but our schedule flexibility is the best in the business if you ask me.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/de...lty-delta.html

FLY6584

To put it in perspective for new hires or anyone else interested in coming here I have been here for about 11 months and I have been off reserve since May. I have worked three full weekends since April a couple other trips that had Sunday afternoon starts, and nothing longer than a 3 day trip. I worked 11 days in July, 12 days in August, and currently scheduled for 9 days (all weekdays) in September. I was off Memorial Day weekend, July 4th weekend, and will be off for Labor Day weekend as well. I also have a week of vacation over Xmas this year. I don't mean to come across as bragging, but show me a first year guy on probation at another Major that can do that with his schedule.

With that said, I am very aggressive about making monthly overlap and ELITT drop flying for me which gives me more flexibility to move things around with less trips on my board. I am always on ELITT (our trading with the company program) when it opens on the 25th of every month and I check it every 30 minutes for a couple days thereafter until I get the schedule I want. And then I always monitor vacation trading as well and was able to turn an October week into a Dec 25th week by trading it multiple times with the company and other pilots until I ended up with Xmas off. Ultimately you do have to put the work in at certain times of the month and have to think outside of the box, but if you're willing to do that your schedule possibilities are endless.

SAY NO TO PBS AT ALL COSTS.

ZapBrannigan

I'm surprised to hear all of that. The 717 guy that dropped a bunch of trips all summer long sounded pretty good though. I miss having the ability to drop a trip from time to time. Also miss long call reserve. Choosing trips on reserve. Getting released early on the last day of reserve... I often argue the "industry leading flexibility" mantra they chant around here. I joke that it's "fly as much as you want!" But don't try to drop... But you are right about adjusting the schedule. I bid the 25th off every month to be sitting at my computer when ELITT opens (because we don't have a workable mobile solution for CWA... but don't get me started...)

Still, I'm glad I read that thread. There is much more to life than an upgrade. If I retire as an FO, I'll still make decent money. Not "turbine bonanza to my ranch in Idaho" money, but more than enough for a decent middle class lifestyle.