ANGFlight81

Ah the beloved career advice from an airline pilot. I always hold that near and dear; just like financial advice and marriage advice, from a pilot 😃

FYI, the new guys are not the reason the side letters were signed. Most of us "new guys" are completely behind the union and what they're doing, so you may want to get your facts straight before you point the finger.

ANGFlight81

So what you're saying is they worked something out to avoid a furlough?

SlipKid

You beat me to it.......


The old: "If you don't like it here, just leave!" attitude is alive and well....

I can say that if it ever made more sense for me to leave during my tenure, I would've done it.

For junior folks, whether you want to hear it or not, it makes sense to seek alternatives.

About the only argument I can see for choosing SW over another carrier today is if you already live in a SW domicile, and honestly, I'd seriously consider moving due to the much better career opportunities elsewhere.

The vast majority of pairings at SW are not commutable on both ends, so you will be adding another unpaid day to just about every trip if you commute. Commuting to reserve, depending on where you live, will most likely be 2 extra unpaid days per trip.

ANGFlight81

With all due respect one of your previous posts mentioned you had an opportunity wih DAL after coming here. You went on to say that even though you would have been furloughed you would be far better off.

I'm sorry, uprooting your family so you can chase an upgrade or a "better" career is ludicrous.

So, which is it?

SlipKid

Seriously? You think being a senior Capt. at SW is the same as being a junior FO here?

A junior guy here (or anywhere) is in an entirely different boat than a senior guy.

I am senior, and will remain so until the day I retire. Unless there is a huge change in philosophy in the halls of Mecca and we actually see some airframe growth, the guy hired at SW today is likely remain junior, and will "enjoy" all that entails, for even longer.


I have less than 1000 pilots in front of me on the list, I am sitting at roughly 25% in one of the most senior domiciles, will retire at less than #50 on the MSL, 5 weeks of vacation, have far more options than a junior guy WRT bid lines, open time and other schedule manipulation opportunities, etc.

Conversely, I don't have 7-8000 pilots in front of me at SW, and I am not looking at well over a decade to upgrade.

I also never have to worry about flying AMs, more than 12-13 days (unless I am rerouted or choose to do so), international, blank lines, reserve, or getting bumped from my domicile. I will likely not get completely screwed in the next, inevitable, SLI. In any case, I'll be far better off than my junior brethren in that situation.

I wouldn't trade the seniority I've earned over 2 decades, for an overseas job, regardless of the pay.

I've done international in a former life, and you can have it.

I am (hopefully) not leaving here now, but, if I were sitting anywhere near the bottom of our list, I'd be at least considering the other options out there.

gipple

It's not ludicrous if you don't have a government tax payer funded retirement. 5 years vs. 15 is impossible to ignore. Pilot profession is currently in demand. When nobody was hiring, SWA was the place to be. No doubt. For that I am grateful. The tables have turned. Legacy business models have adapted and now flourish. As do the pilot careers there. The reality of SWA is that we are saddled with a stagnant future and management that has no tolerance for operational risks i.e. Long haul and new types. Most of the junior FOs realize this and are weighing their options. Management is very concerned with future pilot pipelines. They are exploring an ab initio partnership in the N. Texas region.

SlipKid

I also went on to say that SW was likely the best choice for me at the time. And it was. This is not 17 years ago. Times have changed.

To rehash:

I had an opportunity to INTERVIEW with DAL after being on the property here for over 3 years.

We were still growing rapidly, and the other guys were slowing down their hiring in preparation for the coming economic downturn.

I was not languishing near the bottom of the SW list 3 years after getting hired like one would today. At the time, I was sitting at roughly 30-40% on the FO list, and was less than 2 years from upgrade due to the massive growth we were experiencing. This was one of the reasons I chose to not even bother with the interview.

The likelihood of a DAL furlough was the other reason I chose to stay at SW. I had a wife and 2 kids by then, and after 10 years of slugging it out in the commuter/cargo world for dismal pay, was finally making enough money to live on and max out my 401K. I simply couldn't afford it.

Even considering a several year furlough, by the time I retired, I would have been exponentially better off financially had I gone to DAL, due to their much higher pay scales, and DB retirement plan. SW wasn't even close, unless I won the lottery to offset the difference.


9/11 changed the landscape dramatically, and, especially during the "lost decade", I was far better off than had I gone to DAL.

Today, the situation is reversed, mainly due to the huge retirement numbers at the other majors. Given the choice, I honestly can't see choosing SW over other options, but YMMV.

So is completely dismissing far better career opportunities.

Dismissing far better career opportunities when they are available is more ludicrous than potentially uprooting your family by considering them.

RJSAviator76

And you offer to improve the place by telling us to leave? Clowns with zero self-worth? No backbone? Wow... presumptive much? All due respect pal, but it wasn't the newhires that agreed to fly 800 for no extra money, or international for no extra money, or operate international turns with no crew meals.

Here's a suggested post for you as a senior guy...

Hey newbies, welcome aboard. As you know, we are in contract negotiations and unlike at ALPA, here you have a vote even during probationary year. We are looking for parity with the other 3 airlines, and want to pass a much better airline to you guys, and we want you to feel that self-worth and pride in this profession. We need your help and this is how you can help - show unity, wear a dark tie, stay informed about the industry. We also want you to know that should it ever come to a strike, we will not leave you behind or sell you out...

Now, this newbie knows what this career is worth; this newbie is also keenly aware of what our peers make elsewhere; and this newbie has a vote. What this newbie would appreciate from the seniors is continued leadership and motivation like we get from JW and BOD and NC, and not the 'go somewhere else' copout that undermines their message.

ANGFlight81

Dismissing far better career opportunities when they are available is more ludicrous than potentially uprooting your family by considering them. [/QUOTE]

So, where should we go? What do you recommend?

I've been here less than a year and by the close of 16' will have close to 1000 people beneath me. Hiring isn't supposed to slow next year or in the near future for that matter.

flyguy81

The outdated CBA here is light years ahead of my new CBA at my regional I left. So yeah, I'm happy to be here. I drive to work, spend 20+ nights at home in my own bed and see my family way more than I ever did as a RJ Capt. I'd argue all you keyboard commandos telling everyone who can read to go elsewhere is what's making SWA a less desirable place to work. People will go where their QOL is best, irregardless of how much they'll make an hour or what % goes into their 401k.

My choices were SWA and UAL and flying UAX for 10 yrs left little to be desired on that side. Probably the worst run, most mismanaged of all the legacies I flew express for: US Air, CAL, DL, AA, UAL, and YX. You won't get me to leave here for there by dangling a little extra pay/hr. Right now UAL looks good but look at the last 20 yrs and their history is abysmal.

And yes, I will strike if it comes to it (which it won't...ever) to get a CBA that reflects a pilots worth in 2016 and beyond. I dealt with 9 yrs of negotiating BS so I'm well aware of the NMB and the process.