Southwest Issues?
01-24-2014, 05:47 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 737CA
Posts: 198
Some high lights/low lights of the 4th qtr and full 2013 yr CC
"I'll close with a quick recap of our fleet and capacity plans. We took delivery of 18 -800s and 2 pre-owned -700s during 2013. We retired 12 Classic aircraft and transitioned 13 717s to Delta. All in, we ended the year with 680 aircraft in our active fleet, which excludes additional 717s removed from active service in preparation for a transition to Delta. For 2014, we are contracted to take delivery of 33 -800s from Boeing and 12 pre-owned 700s. And we are managing a significant amount of fleet activity in 2014 with the 717 transitions, Classic retirements and AirTran -700 conversions to Southwest. However, we intend to keep our capacity for the year relatively flat on a year-over-year basis."
"Our 15% pretax ROIC goal hasn't changed. We came close in 2013. And based on our current outlook, we are well positioned to hit it here in 2014."
"And the other point to reiterate right now is that, for purposes of 2014 in the way you're thinking about us, we're pretty much going to take the AirTran International route system and simply move it gradually into Southwest. That's not literally true, but at the same time, we're not anticipating any bold moves here with new international markets and a lot of additional capacity in 2014. I think this sets the stage once we get through 2014 and the final integration, get the Wright Amendment repealed, it sets the stage for us to think about doing more with international in 2015 and especially when the Houston Hobby international terminal comes online in late 2015. But what you see right now is pretty much what you should expect for 2014 in terms of that international footprint."
"We're going to have, from this point forward until we finish the integration, 10 to 15 more aircraft out of service than we normally would as one vivid example. So these are airplanes that have been pulled out of service to go through a physical conversion, either 737s into Southwest or 717s into Delta, and that is pretty inefficient. I mentioned in my opening remarks, just the ongoing inefficiency of managing 2 airlines. So there's a hangover for that. But the training cost associated with our flight crews is quite substantial. So not only do you have airplanes that have a higher number out of service, but you also have a lot of employees that are, in effect, not in revenue service."
"On the reservation system, Amadeus, you got that right. That is our international solution. We're days away from revealing on that. So that is a multiyear, multimillion dollar technology project. It is exactly on schedule. I could not be more proud of the work that our folks have done. So that's about to be unveiled. And then the follow-on, which we -- Mike, we don't have a schedule established. We have a commitment to follow on the international with the complete replacement of the domestic reservation system. So that -- you could describe that as we are in the planning stages right now. There's a lot of work underway. We have not selected a vendor yet. And until we do, we won't have a specific project plan. But it's going to take us well beyond 2014 and maybe all the way through 2015. So it's just a little premature to give you a timetable on that. With respect to us making any decision on that, that should be in the first half of this year easily. So our focus, as you can tell, is to get international up and running first. That will pave the way to then move directly into the complete replacement of that system."
"I think, and Mike is here with me, our fleet plans are pretty set here for 2014. I don't see us bringing in, other than sort of sliding on the calendar near year end, I don't see any change from what Tammy reported, which is 33 firm from Boeing, I don't see that changing; and then 12 on the used market, I don't see that changing. Now we have not decided on our fleet plan yet for 2015. So I think that's still – as I think all of you all understand that that's something that we'll make up our minds with as we go through 2014. The only variable here is whether we retire any airplanes faster. And of course, we've got a plan for the year. And if the year goes well, we wouldn't want to do that. If we get the slots, we'll have to take aircraft capacity from somewhere, depending upon what we get and when we have to fly it. So it's a small enough amount of capacity that I just don't think it's going to be difficult for us to do that. But no, we don't have any plans to change our fleet for 2014."
"Well, just to recap what we've said so far. At least in recent times, the percentage of our route system that is "under development" is a very high. So I think we shared that it's 16% of our available seat miles. That is going to be sustained throughout this year. And then when we have the final retirement of AirTran and integration into Southwest, it'll actually step up. So you're going to see a lot of "optimization" taking place certainly this year. And then next year, we'll have a lot of opportunities that unfold, and Bob will have a lot of choices to make about where we might want to add new routes. But I think we're still in pretty heavy optimization mode, wouldn't you say, Bob?"
"Yes, I think I would say to 2014, obviously, it's a big year. We have the completion of the integration, which means we're going to continue to move Atlanta from a still somewhat hub structure, much less with the November schedule change, to a more traditional Southwest structure. I don't think that'll have a big impact on capacity in Atlanta, but it'll have an impact -- continuing impact on the flight schedule there"
"One thing to point out with our capacity in 2015 is that we're going to have capacity growth next year, simply because you'll have a much higher percentage of aircraft out of nonproductive status. So even without adding any airplanes next year, we'll be able to add some capacity. And we'll have to factor that in to whatever choices that we want to make for next year."
"We're actively working with all of our labor groups that are in Section 6, and we want to contract with them. So we're not trying to slow play that at all. We have a lot of opportunities. Our labor contracts are built on operating models that existed in Southwest Airlines 10 and 15 years ago. So there are a lot of avenues in that labor contract where I think that we can find flexibility and ways that we can improve our operating performance and improve our cost and come to a contract with our labor groups that doesn't put unit cost pressure on the company."
" We want to be a low-cost producer. We want to be America's low-fare airline, and we want to take our low fares to North America. And the only way we can do that is to make sure that we are, in fact, low cost. What Mike was pointing out is there are -- we can do very good things for our employees and, at the same time, eliminate waste and eliminate inefficiencies that currently exist. And it's just a wonderful place to be. We have wonderful opportunities to win on both counts and keep Southwest Airlines jobs secure and a low-cost producer. "
Question:Just a quick question with respect to the 717s. I noticed that Delta announced that some of them are going to be flying right back at Love Field, just in a different livery. And I'm just -- what's the thought there? Given their competitive capacity, how does that impact your own operations there?
Answer:I think it's irrelevant. There are plenty of airplanes available in the world. And when we struck the deal with Delta, they were either going to get airplanes for us or get airplanes from brand X. So they will make their own decisions about how many airplanes they want, where they want to fly them. So it really has nothing to do with us. And likewise, we'll have the same number of airplanes with or without the 717 deal that we did. So the other thing I would point out is that the city of Dallas has not awarded the gates, much less the flying that is -- that you're speaking about. So the DOJ has required that American divest 2 gates, and it remains to be seen who will get those 2 gates.
"I'll close with a quick recap of our fleet and capacity plans. We took delivery of 18 -800s and 2 pre-owned -700s during 2013. We retired 12 Classic aircraft and transitioned 13 717s to Delta. All in, we ended the year with 680 aircraft in our active fleet, which excludes additional 717s removed from active service in preparation for a transition to Delta. For 2014, we are contracted to take delivery of 33 -800s from Boeing and 12 pre-owned 700s. And we are managing a significant amount of fleet activity in 2014 with the 717 transitions, Classic retirements and AirTran -700 conversions to Southwest. However, we intend to keep our capacity for the year relatively flat on a year-over-year basis."
"Our 15% pretax ROIC goal hasn't changed. We came close in 2013. And based on our current outlook, we are well positioned to hit it here in 2014."
"And the other point to reiterate right now is that, for purposes of 2014 in the way you're thinking about us, we're pretty much going to take the AirTran International route system and simply move it gradually into Southwest. That's not literally true, but at the same time, we're not anticipating any bold moves here with new international markets and a lot of additional capacity in 2014. I think this sets the stage once we get through 2014 and the final integration, get the Wright Amendment repealed, it sets the stage for us to think about doing more with international in 2015 and especially when the Houston Hobby international terminal comes online in late 2015. But what you see right now is pretty much what you should expect for 2014 in terms of that international footprint."
"We're going to have, from this point forward until we finish the integration, 10 to 15 more aircraft out of service than we normally would as one vivid example. So these are airplanes that have been pulled out of service to go through a physical conversion, either 737s into Southwest or 717s into Delta, and that is pretty inefficient. I mentioned in my opening remarks, just the ongoing inefficiency of managing 2 airlines. So there's a hangover for that. But the training cost associated with our flight crews is quite substantial. So not only do you have airplanes that have a higher number out of service, but you also have a lot of employees that are, in effect, not in revenue service."
"On the reservation system, Amadeus, you got that right. That is our international solution. We're days away from revealing on that. So that is a multiyear, multimillion dollar technology project. It is exactly on schedule. I could not be more proud of the work that our folks have done. So that's about to be unveiled. And then the follow-on, which we -- Mike, we don't have a schedule established. We have a commitment to follow on the international with the complete replacement of the domestic reservation system. So that -- you could describe that as we are in the planning stages right now. There's a lot of work underway. We have not selected a vendor yet. And until we do, we won't have a specific project plan. But it's going to take us well beyond 2014 and maybe all the way through 2015. So it's just a little premature to give you a timetable on that. With respect to us making any decision on that, that should be in the first half of this year easily. So our focus, as you can tell, is to get international up and running first. That will pave the way to then move directly into the complete replacement of that system."
"I think, and Mike is here with me, our fleet plans are pretty set here for 2014. I don't see us bringing in, other than sort of sliding on the calendar near year end, I don't see any change from what Tammy reported, which is 33 firm from Boeing, I don't see that changing; and then 12 on the used market, I don't see that changing. Now we have not decided on our fleet plan yet for 2015. So I think that's still – as I think all of you all understand that that's something that we'll make up our minds with as we go through 2014. The only variable here is whether we retire any airplanes faster. And of course, we've got a plan for the year. And if the year goes well, we wouldn't want to do that. If we get the slots, we'll have to take aircraft capacity from somewhere, depending upon what we get and when we have to fly it. So it's a small enough amount of capacity that I just don't think it's going to be difficult for us to do that. But no, we don't have any plans to change our fleet for 2014."
"Well, just to recap what we've said so far. At least in recent times, the percentage of our route system that is "under development" is a very high. So I think we shared that it's 16% of our available seat miles. That is going to be sustained throughout this year. And then when we have the final retirement of AirTran and integration into Southwest, it'll actually step up. So you're going to see a lot of "optimization" taking place certainly this year. And then next year, we'll have a lot of opportunities that unfold, and Bob will have a lot of choices to make about where we might want to add new routes. But I think we're still in pretty heavy optimization mode, wouldn't you say, Bob?"
"Yes, I think I would say to 2014, obviously, it's a big year. We have the completion of the integration, which means we're going to continue to move Atlanta from a still somewhat hub structure, much less with the November schedule change, to a more traditional Southwest structure. I don't think that'll have a big impact on capacity in Atlanta, but it'll have an impact -- continuing impact on the flight schedule there"
"One thing to point out with our capacity in 2015 is that we're going to have capacity growth next year, simply because you'll have a much higher percentage of aircraft out of nonproductive status. So even without adding any airplanes next year, we'll be able to add some capacity. And we'll have to factor that in to whatever choices that we want to make for next year."
"We're actively working with all of our labor groups that are in Section 6, and we want to contract with them. So we're not trying to slow play that at all. We have a lot of opportunities. Our labor contracts are built on operating models that existed in Southwest Airlines 10 and 15 years ago. So there are a lot of avenues in that labor contract where I think that we can find flexibility and ways that we can improve our operating performance and improve our cost and come to a contract with our labor groups that doesn't put unit cost pressure on the company."
" We want to be a low-cost producer. We want to be America's low-fare airline, and we want to take our low fares to North America. And the only way we can do that is to make sure that we are, in fact, low cost. What Mike was pointing out is there are -- we can do very good things for our employees and, at the same time, eliminate waste and eliminate inefficiencies that currently exist. And it's just a wonderful place to be. We have wonderful opportunities to win on both counts and keep Southwest Airlines jobs secure and a low-cost producer. "
Question:Just a quick question with respect to the 717s. I noticed that Delta announced that some of them are going to be flying right back at Love Field, just in a different livery. And I'm just -- what's the thought there? Given their competitive capacity, how does that impact your own operations there?
Answer:I think it's irrelevant. There are plenty of airplanes available in the world. And when we struck the deal with Delta, they were either going to get airplanes for us or get airplanes from brand X. So they will make their own decisions about how many airplanes they want, where they want to fly them. So it really has nothing to do with us. And likewise, we'll have the same number of airplanes with or without the 717 deal that we did. So the other thing I would point out is that the city of Dallas has not awarded the gates, much less the flying that is -- that you're speaking about. So the DOJ has required that American divest 2 gates, and it remains to be seen who will get those 2 gates.
01-24-2014, 07:40 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: KC135 IP
Posts: 398
Truer word have never been said
01-26-2014, 08:01 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
While I do not disagree that much of what you are griping about does occur here, I question the prevalence. Sounds an awful lot like the rantings of a former captain who has been dragged kicking & screaming back to the right seat. Either that or you are flying way too many trips during midweek or out of PHX, DAL or HOU. 
Well, actually my flying with the "Colonels" is limited. Obviously I'm not happy about having to go back to the right seat. That goes without saying, but I honestly tried to provide an objection view of line ops at SWA from what I've observed.
A lot of factors go into it. First the "that's the way we've always done it" mentality is still present (you guys will be the first to admit that). Second, a large percentage of the Cptns. have zero prior airline experience. They're straight out of tanker or fighter and could use some advice on how to taxi and/or fly an aircraft with pax in the back.
I just DHed back to BWI and we landed on RWY 10. Jesus, why is there a need to jerk the people around in the back just to make the taxiway before 4-22. The first words out of the FA's mouth on the PA after landing were "Well folks, looks like the brakes work". How utterly embarrassing.
I think it comes down to guys that have never known better because they've never HAD to treat an aircraft with smoothness for the comfort of those in the back, coupled with the cowboy culture (that's fortunately waning), couple with not being taught any better by those doing the teaching.
Learning how to operate an aircraft efficiently during a time of high fuel costs should certainly be TAUGHT, but a lot of it is totally common sense. You don't start down early if you don't have to, you single-engine taxi whenever feasible, and you don't race to your next braking/stopping point. That doesn't take a degree from the schoolhouse to figure out.
There is a lot of fuel being p!ssed away out on line. The last guy I just flew with was absolutely great. A pleasure to fly with. He complained about the same things that I'm b!tching about here. Former corporate.....
01-26-2014, 08:34 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
I can say that the vast majority of Captains I flew with needed very little, if any, advice from me as to how to operate the aircraft, but I'm sure you're a much superior pilot, and as such have a ton of wonderful knowledge to impart. Ever think of joining the training department and giving up this flying stuff?
01-26-2014, 08:47 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
That's very interesting. If I weren't already retired I'd most certainly apply for one of those captain positions. I mean, why bother with doing the right seat thing, when you can just go directly to the left seat. At the three airlines I had the pleasure of flying for throughout my career, I always sat in the back until I could sit in the right seat, where I observed how to operate the airplane. Then, when I moved to the left seat, I used what I had learned by watching the captains operate, as well as what I was taught in upgrade training, to operate the jet the way the company wanted me to.
I can say that the vast majority of Captains I flew with needed very little, if any, advice from me as to how to operate the aircraft, but I'm sure you're a much superior pilot, and as such have a ton of wonderful knowledge to impart. Ever think of joining the training department and giving up this flying stuff?
I can say that the vast majority of Captains I flew with needed very little, if any, advice from me as to how to operate the aircraft, but I'm sure you're a much superior pilot, and as such have a ton of wonderful knowledge to impart. Ever think of joining the training department and giving up this flying stuff?
They have a reputation for operating the airplane like cowboys. Fortunately it's not as bad as what it once was from what I'm told, but it's still there. Truth hurts I guess.
01-26-2014, 08:57 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
First of all, your comments don't "ruffle my feathers", because frankly my dear, I don't give a damn, as I've no dog in this fight. Secondly, it seems to me that you've got only a few options if you want to help transform your pilot group into a smoother, more efficient, and more standardized group. You can: lead by example, assuming you're in a left seat; you can become an instructor, thereby imparting your knowledge, both procedurally as well as technique, to every pilot who crosses your classroom/simulator; or you can buy the airline and fire all those cowboys. You cannot fix your company's problems by complaining here on APC. Perhaps it's time to poop or get off the pot.
01-26-2014, 09:19 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
First of all, your comments don't "ruffle my feathers", because frankly my dear, I don't give a damn, as I've no dog in this fight. Secondly, it seems to me that you've got only a few options if you want to help transform your pilot group into a smoother, more efficient, and more standardized group. You can: lead by example, assuming you're in a left seat; you can become an instructor, thereby imparting your knowledge, both procedurally as well as technique, to every pilot who crosses your classroom/simulator; or you can buy the airline and fire all those cowboys. You cannot fix your company's problems by complaining here on APC. Perhaps it's time to poop or get off the pot.
As for changing things.....I could really give a crap. After the raping of my seniority and my seat, I'm only in this for one person. Moi (and my fellow pilots who've been wronged from my previous group). WHEN I get my seat back, I'll be sure to operate as I did before. That's all I can really change.
In the meantime we can continue to have a discussion about the issues currently facing SWA.
01-26-2014, 11:46 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 323
WHEN I get my seat back
I've been in the left seat at SWA for 19 years, and still would never have the audacity to refer to it as "my seat".
01-26-2014, 12:23 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
Interesting side note: My transition class had 24 AirTran pilots in it, almost all downgrading. There was a class of 24 SW upgrades running concurrently with my class. Their instructor told them "The only reason you're here is because they're next door". Yeah, it was MY seat.
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