Speedbird2263

I've been operating in n' out of the ATL for two years and now currently based there and just found out what "short of the 1/4 point" means.

-2263

gloopy

Its quarter roadway. And vehicles have the right of way. Unless you hit one. Then you retroactively had the right of way but it doesn't matter anyway cause its still your fault. You can always call in the truck number, if you can catch it while standing on the brakes. The safety reports for ground vehicles are all paperless and submitted over the radio. You will know when its complete and no further action is required when you get the reply "Copy".

SlipKid

Actually, if SW went BACK to what worked prior to "redfining excrement", the operation would work far better than it does nowadays.

The main problem is ramp manning. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Speedbird2263

It's choreographed madness I tell you. The choreography itself of course, always a work in progress.

-2263

paxhauler85

Honest question: provide some examples of the unused procedures, for those of us who don't work there.

By cleaning up the operation, I assume you're referring to the ground ops?

WHACKMASTER

No, I'm referring to flt ops. Although ground ops is a complete disaster. For a frame of reference, SW is my fourth airline in 15 years. While this doesn't make me an expert I also do have some industry perspective.

WRT ground ops, obviously they have their own ax to grind with management right now and that's fine. They're entitled to do what they have to do. 90% of the time we're waiting on the ramp to finish up. It seems to me that we're also not pushing back on time at least 70-80% of the time. The famous 10 minute turn? Hell, sometimes they seriously can't complete a 30 minute turn even if it's not an -800. So again, ground ops is in shambles. It obviously has a lot to do with their current "lack of motivation", but one thing that cannot be said is that the ramp is under staffed. NO WAY IN HELL IS THE RAMP UNDERSTAFFED! I've seen more done with less at other airlines. To my eye, it's actually overstaffed when you see the amount of bodies out there. Even before the current level of angst towards not having a new contract, SW baggage numbers were pretty bad. "Losing more baggage with more staffing" should be the saying.

As for flt ops, there is a LOT of room to save more fuel. Single engine taxi is not even close to being utilized to the level that it should be. Quite frankly it's a joke. I pin it on many factors (excuses), from laziness to the unwillingness to change from "The way we've always done it at SW" mentality. Of course, there's the ever present fact that you can't just jam the power up and be at an instant 25 knot taxi when you have that much asymmetrical thrust when starting to roll on one engine. How else are they supposed to race people to the departure end? However, I think the biggest factor is unfamiliarity and lack of comfort with the procedure.

More specifically, I sense that Cptns think they won't be ready in time at the end (Hint, on an NG start the second engine when third in line for T/O behind two non-heavies/757s and no landers to squeeze into your departure runway. You'll easily get your two minute warm-up. Promise.)

There's also plenty of fuel being pi$$ed away by trying to turn into the good engine upon initial taxi off the gate. How about making a 270 degree turn away from the operating engine. It's a light twin for crying out loud. There's usually PLENTY of space to do it and no need to advise ramp/ATC. Nope, instead let's just push the power up to 60% N1 for half a minute and insist on turning into the operating engine. A little COMMON SENSE would save $ in this instance.

Want more examples? Someone please explain to me what the point of goosing it only to know that you're taxiing for a relatively short distance and will soon have to brake hard? Might I suggest 40-50% N1 and a little PATIENCE!

What about the immediate call to "start number 2" as soon as the tug driver clears us for engine start BEFORE WE EVEN START PUSHING OFF THE GATE? How about waiting to at least see what the ramp and taxiway environment looks like? The frequent result is us sitting there WITH BOTH ENGINES RUNNING for a period of time before we commence our taxi. Oh well, it's not like fuel's $3/gallon.

I think this example sums up the mentality the best. We get cleared for start while still at the gate. Of course, he calls to "start number 2" before we even start pushing. After we commence push I notice that there's about 6-7 jets in line for T/O, yet I still here "start number 1". Thinking that he doesn't see the line, I politely mention that "it looks like there's about 6 or 7 in line". The response? "I like to be ready at the end". Mind you it was not a long taxi either.

Shall I continue? Why the hesitancy to shut the engines down when there's a 15 to 20 minute or more wheels up delay? Why, WHY start down early from your TOD when there's no good reason to especially if you have the descent winds programmed (which you should)? I see it all the time. Talk about a lack of use of the automation at this airline.

Unfortunately, the Onboard Performance Computer (OPC) because of all of the taxiway/runway "incidents" in the past, is programmed to be VERY conservative. This also leads to decreased fuel savings because it doesn't matter if we're landing 16L in DEN and we park WAAAAAY to the south, the TR still has to at least hit the full reverse detent. Idle reverse is not allowed to be used, period.

Also, if the OPC says that Auto Brakes 2 cannot be used, you have the choice of using Auto Brakes 3 or Auto Brakes OFF So, brakes 2 is not sufficient, but OFF is? What the f+++?

Anyway, rant over. My point was that it's great that the airline is making a profit, but even SW pilots (or "real SW pilots" RSW as they've referred to themselves) will scratch there head as to just how considering how @(*!ed up the operation is right now. Actually following fuel saving measures and a little common sense would go even further to profits. There's a ton of room for improvement, and yes while the following statement may come across as flame bait, it's really not. We actually DID run a far better ramp and flt ops at AirTran (and some of my previous employers as well). Fortunately some of those procedures are being adopted by SW, but there's a difference in officially adopting them and actually using them in daily line ops.

WHACKMASTER

And just to keep my previous post from being perceived as SW bashing, allow me to state one positive. The crew schedulers are by far the friendliest and most helpful that I've ever dealt with. A true pleasure.

paxhauler85

Great post. Thanks for the detailed response. This is a good read for any pilot who tries to save fuel where possible. I see a lot of complacency at my (regional) level since Delta pays for the fuel we burn. Many Captains show little interest in saving a ounce of gas, and some see the fact that Delta pays for said fuel, as an excuse to burn more (fly fast with a tailwind, no single engine taxi).

I'm not an environmentalist by any means, but I try to be efficient where possible, especially when it comes to burning fossil fuels (whether I'm paying for it or not). It's a little disheartening to see people with such little regard for money and efficiency.

REF 5

Couple of things about Flight ops. Lets take single engine taxi. Almost their whole existence, they never really had to use it. Captain started both engines. Most airports(MDW,HOU and BWI) they fly out of, their taxi times were pretty short. On top the fact the demos in the back get done pretty quick. Faster than we do for sure. Now fast forward a few decades. 3.50 per gallon Jet A and fuel becomes your largest expense. Fly into delayed airports(LGA,EWR,PHL,BOS,ATL, etc), your average taxi times start to rise, hence management makes it a priority. At Airtran, FO always started the engines, even before single engine taxi. We got a memo and pretty much end of story. And we are smaller, a lot smaller. Easier to get the pilot group to comply. SWA is very large, a lot older airline. Got to retrain everybody which takes a while. Now the hard part of compliance. That's going to take a long time. If they stress it in recurrent and in checkrides, plus the use of FOQA data, they should be able to get a high amount of compliance. You are working for a large airline with 600 airplanes and does almost 18 billion in revenue. layers upon layers of management. Right or wrong, that's what this place is. No different than any other large airline.

This may not be a SWA thing but a FAA thing. I think SWA would love to get rid of some of these performance penalties but the FAA may not allow it. Hence why we have to now since we got SOC. Bottom line is that it's between the feds and SWA. Since we are in the middle of an acquisition I doubt the FAA is in the mood to change it. Look at EYW. We had a op spec exemption to dispatch to a dry runway at EYW. They could not. Pretty much EYW became a money loser as soon as SWA put there own metal there. Unfortunate but that is how it goes.

That's a Flight ops/training issue. Not a line pilot issue. If they don't teach them, they won't use it. Tribal knowledge doesn't count. That's a pure training issue.

SWA has the most unionized work force in the industry. The ramp itself(under the wing) IMO is under staffed. 52 800's are coming this year and next. Close to 100 of them on the property. More bags but yet no extra help and yet they want to turn these airplanes quicker. Ain't gonna happen. Above the wing is a different story. That is ALL do to union contracts and the prevention of stepping on each others jobs. That's going to be a tough one to crack. Especially if they want to cross train jobs. Throw in different unions also. Pretty tough. Good luck. Most companies have shred that style of operation years ago. They had to go through bankruptcy to do it. SWA just announced this morning they made 800 million for the year with a 13% ROIC. Explain that in section 6 negotiations.

Smokey23

While I do not disagree that much of what you are griping about does occur here, I question the prevalence. Sounds an awful lot like the rantings of a former captain who has been dragged kicking & screaming back to the right seat. Either that or you are flying way too many trips during midweek or out of PHX, DAL or HOU.