Why you like/dislike SWA
12-22-2013, 03:55 AM
#31
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Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
The first offer was far more insulting to the SW guys, IMHO
That is extremely enlightening into your mentalities and views of us as AT pilots. How's that for sheer arrogance folks?
Other than voting no on everything, I had no input whatsoever on any of this. Your vitriol is aimed at the wrong folks.
Last edited by SlipKid; 12-22-2013 at 04:15 AM.
12-22-2013, 04:05 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
We're starting to see a huge disconnect between upper management and the worker bees, and it's killing the ops side of things.
12-22-2013, 04:57 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
The first offer was far more insulting to the SW guys, IMHO
12-22-2013, 05:29 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
Gary's first offer was made to get you guys to bite off on it as quickly as possible. There was very little consideration given to what the SW pilots wanted, since he knew "we" would accept anything offered to us. He also knew that the AT guys weren't the pushovers that SW pilots are, hence the very one sided benefits.
I would've voted no on the first offer, and voted no on the second, as I sincerely believed that arbitration would've yielded a more fair SLI overall.
The first offer would've had FAT Capts flying with SW FOs with years more longevity and nothing whatsoever to show for it. We would've been locked out of bidding ATL among a bunch of other stuff that benefitted only the AT guys.
Personally I am glad that your MEC didn't put it out for a vote, as it would've easily passed both sides.
The arrogance of SW and its employees is amazing...a lot like some of the legacy airlines of the 90's. Its like you live in a bubble
But.
I do believe that the SW career was better than one at AT was. Prior to 9/27/10, most AT pilots agreed. Similarly, depending on when you were hired, a Delta, UAL, AA, USAir etc career was better than a SW career. Not arrogance, just reality.
It's an interesting study in human nature to see how much better AT was, now that you've been acquired.
Most SW folks got little or nothing out of this deal. The only ones who've made out are the FOs that (finally) got to upgrade, and that will be a tenuous "win", at best, when the FAT capts start moving into the left seat on the SW side.
Everyone else is paying, in one way or another, for this fiasco. It's a **** sandwich for us too and it's arrogant on your part if you can't or won't see that.
Last edited by SlipKid; 12-22-2013 at 05:46 AM.
12-22-2013, 09:18 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Oscar,
I like to run silent. Like I said earlier, no need to place a target on one's self.
As for the rest, you misunderstand. I wish no ill will or misfortune to anyone at any other company. I never even used those words. I only look forward to working for the best company around. That by definition makes everybody else second best. Competitive advantages further that. That is what your, AA's and United merger messes are. Competitive advantages. Even our merger was for you. You can't tell me that you and the other pilots at SWA would take the egalitarian road and give up a competitive advantage to another group. If so, I suspect that your SLI with AAI would have gone much different. Some of those guys had their careers and families undermined. What are you doing for them?
Business is just economic war on a small scale. I am sure that your management does and will take advantage of every misstep made by other airlines and that you were and will be right there, cheering them on. I didn't see you on here lamenting the bankruptcies of everyone else, while your company took advantage of that and expanded, thereby giving you a blessed career.
It's like your other thread looking for any success stories or the lack thereof. I sense a desire to find none so that you can tell these guys it's a mistake to leave SWA. I hope that's not the case. (What I'm reading into it.) Everyone needs to make a decision for themselves and their families. Some will choose wisely, and some won't. I got friends that left SWA for Delta, and some that left Delta for SWA. There is no way to tell who chose wisely because one person's definition of success is different from another.
You last sentence says a lot too. You don't mind supporting your company steamrolling anybody or thing that gets in it's way because it furthers your career, but then want to claim the moral high ground when anyone else says anything?
I hope you truly do have a Merry Christmas, Hannakuh, Happy Holidays, or Festivus. And that you continue to be blessed in all things. Hell, I'll even buy a few rounds if we ever cross paths, but you gotta back me up as a SWA crewmember so I get the 1-2-3 pricing too! (See, there's a competitive advantage your company gets right there.)
I like to run silent. Like I said earlier, no need to place a target on one's self.
As for the rest, you misunderstand. I wish no ill will or misfortune to anyone at any other company. I never even used those words. I only look forward to working for the best company around. That by definition makes everybody else second best. Competitive advantages further that. That is what your, AA's and United merger messes are. Competitive advantages. Even our merger was for you. You can't tell me that you and the other pilots at SWA would take the egalitarian road and give up a competitive advantage to another group. If so, I suspect that your SLI with AAI would have gone much different. Some of those guys had their careers and families undermined. What are you doing for them?
Business is just economic war on a small scale. I am sure that your management does and will take advantage of every misstep made by other airlines and that you were and will be right there, cheering them on. I didn't see you on here lamenting the bankruptcies of everyone else, while your company took advantage of that and expanded, thereby giving you a blessed career.
It's like your other thread looking for any success stories or the lack thereof. I sense a desire to find none so that you can tell these guys it's a mistake to leave SWA. I hope that's not the case. (What I'm reading into it.) Everyone needs to make a decision for themselves and their families. Some will choose wisely, and some won't. I got friends that left SWA for Delta, and some that left Delta for SWA. There is no way to tell who chose wisely because one person's definition of success is different from another.
You last sentence says a lot too. You don't mind supporting your company steamrolling anybody or thing that gets in it's way because it furthers your career, but then want to claim the moral high ground when anyone else says anything?
I hope you truly do have a Merry Christmas, Hannakuh, Happy Holidays, or Festivus. And that you continue to be blessed in all things. Hell, I'll even buy a few rounds if we ever cross paths, but you gotta back me up as a SWA crewmember so I get the 1-2-3 pricing too! (See, there's a competitive advantage your company gets right there.)
I am usually right there with you as far as staying off the skyline! I also believe I have conducted myself on this forum in such a way as to unconcerned that my identity be known. My Marine buddies know exactly who I am because of my avatar and I have even revealed myself to some of my AT brethren when they PMed me. An anonymous forum seems to give some folks larger cajones to post offensive things then they have in reality/person.
Your first statement in bold above means I have control over what my union or my company did? Little 'ol me has very little power to influence. I might differ with you about how some have had their careers undermined.
Your second statement in bold says I need to find evidence of failure so I can convince others to stay at SWA. You know little about me because if you did you would know I am simply looking for info to pass along to others who are making important career decisions. I have no ego in this just searching for facts. I made a decision years ago that turned out well for me personally. That same decision by someone else today will have a whole bunch of different variables to consider.
Your third statement in bold proves you know nothing about me. I personally would not support any person, entity, or company unfairly "steamrolling" anyone for any reason. I might differ with someone about what their interpretation of competition is. Competition in the business world is as you stated like a small economic war. As they say was is hell.
I would challenge anyone to find evidence on APC of me purposely supporting anyone being s.....wed to further my career. It just isn't me. As far as the 1-2-3 goes--I am buying!
The Oscar
12-22-2013, 02:55 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: A330 First Officer
Posts: 1,465
For those of us on the outside looking in, it didn't seem like you guys went the conventional route of deciding a seniority list during this merger/acquisition.
I don't have a dog in the hunt or have any friends that talk about this stuff openly, however it seems that SWA management was more heavily involved in this SLI than I've seen in any merger since I've been in the airline industry.
To me it looked like SWA said here is your offer and when AT pilots union said thanks but no thanks then they came back and said here is your final offer or we take the assets and get rid of you. I didn't see anything about SWAPA and AT ALPA sitting down and talking. Did I miss that?
I don't have a dog in the hunt or have any friends that talk about this stuff openly, however it seems that SWA management was more heavily involved in this SLI than I've seen in any merger since I've been in the airline industry.
To me it looked like SWA said here is your offer and when AT pilots union said thanks but no thanks then they came back and said here is your final offer or we take the assets and get rid of you. I didn't see anything about SWAPA and AT ALPA sitting down and talking. Did I miss that?
12-22-2013, 05:47 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
I didn't see anything about SWAPA and AT ALPA sitting down and talking. Did I miss that?
12-22-2013, 06:57 PM
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Tail Surfing on a 737
Posts: 64
12-22-2013, 08:26 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 270
While risking the verbal retaliation for saying this, there isn't bro. Unfortunately this is like the crime (Please understand that I'm not saying that anything was a "crime" in this case. Just using an example) that happened that had no witnesses to testify. It's just two independent accounts of a story with each person sticking to their guns about how it happened no matter what kind of evidence has been submitted. Whatever it is that an AirTran or Southwest guy says about the SLI, the other AirTran or Southwest guy will attempt to defend it or defeat it.
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