SlipKid

It was very clear which group SW "favored" with the first offer...... and it wasn't the SW guys. You poked GK in the eye and got poked right back.

As for the rest, SW folks have enjoyed reduced QOL, emotional stress AND, unlike the vast majority of former AT guys, monetary loss. The only folks who've made out (temporarily) are the FO's who got an upgrade out of the deal. For everyone else, it was net zero, at best.

LOL..... SWApA doesn't and has never "strong armed" anyone. This was GK's baby and SWApA was along for the ride as usual.

You wanna hate, take a look in the mirror and kick yourself for voting against the first offer, which would've taken care of all of your above gripes.

Smokey23

In their defense, the ATN pilots were not given the choice of voting on the first ISL....that option was blocked by ATN-ALPA.

But Frank thought that one was an insult too...

Snarge

I don't like the hi-speed taxis, getting cut off and short approaches.... guys... SLOW DOWN!

Frank Rizzo

It wasn't just me. Our MEC and ALPA lawyers thought so as well.

The seniority loss on the first agreement was massive, it was rightfully rejected.

SlipKid

I wrote what I wrote intentionally.

Since I had nothing whatsoever, but yet I am personally being blamed for all of AT's "woes", then I hold FR, WM and others of their ilk to the same standard.

This is GK's game and the vast majority of us are nothing more than pawns. Too bad these guys don't get it.

WHACKMASTER

You're guilty by STRONG association to your union. They represent you. I'm sure you all called SWAPA up and said, "No, no. Don't screw them like that. They deserve fair treatment."

Whatever.......Don't insult my intelligence or anybody else's that's reading this. Admit it. If you (the SWAPA membership) could have stapled every last one of us you would have jumped at the chance. Sorry we "only" took an average seniority loss of 22%.

WHACKMASTER

Do you have any concept of just how utterly insulting the proposal to put us on probation after we transitioned over was?! A merger of two viable carriers and you guys wanted to put even the most senior of our pilots on probation at SW!

That is extremely enlightening into your mentalities and views of us as AT pilots. How's that for sheer arrogance folks?

Boogie Nights

Let us have a real conversation about what we like do and do not like.

Major issue

GOUND OPS
You have to admit there are major issues here.
When AT ran our ops I personally pushed back on time 95+% of the time, now at SWA I am lucky to push back one time on a four day trip. This slide was meteoric in its fall. On time meant; the wheels move at the published departure time.
Many of our smaller markets we contracted our ground ops. We still managed to push on time. The only place where we consistently push on time now is international; where we have contracted ground ops.

What is the deal with customer service and ops agents? How is that efficient. To top it off they are two separate unions!! This a huge barrier to getting out on time. I am not sure what an ops agent does on the SWA side but they add nothing on the AT side. They show 30 mins prior to departure, at AT the crew shows 45 minutes prior. So we sit for 15 minutes waiting for someone to let us down the jetway to start trying to leave on-time. So an ops agent hands us our paperwork and says all set. We get our numbers from ACARS 2 minutes tops. We can print them too, along with our ATIS. This gate agent / ops agent is a huge obstacle to on time departure. Coupled with this seems to be a consistent shortage of ops agents when trying to either taxi into or out of gate.

The biggest SWA stations seem to be the worst. I have talked to the ops agents and I know they fulfill a greater purpose on the SWA side but they seem as if they could be efficiently replaced with newer technology and placed into positions where they could be of more value.

Baggage handling
AT was number one in the industry for years until SWA took it over. our bag handling. Now we are what 7th? and SWA is even worse. It is not worth putting the AT name on the product because it is essentially SWA ops. We won AQR award 4 out of 6 years and finished 2nd and 3rd when we did not win until SWA took over ground OPS. I have personal stories with baggage handling to reflect and enforce this idea that I will not go into right now.

Calling in range. We are directed to do this. Maybe 60% of the time do we even get an answer and it seems as though they can't be bothered to deal with us. Us being AT. It seems SWA aircraft get better treatment.

Aircraft servicing MDW BWI. It is often an act of god to get the LAV or water serviced at these stations. The station people who answer the radios seem equally frustrated but the slow response. Why should any EMO (early morning originator) not already be serviced when it has been sitting all night. I can understand if it was cold but in the summer? When a plane pulls into a gatefor the night it should be automatically be serviced.

Catering. for the most part good.... Two bad instances stand out. 1) I had a caterer threaten a job action because we left the bag of cockpit trash near the R1 door where AT caterers would take it with other aircraft trash, saying he needed to be asked politely to take the trash away. He said he had already filed four job actions prior and outright threatened the captain with one. 2) Disco Stu or what ever his name is in LAX. A colorful character to be sure but when it is 2 minutes to push, and he has had his truck connected to the R1 door for the last 25 minutes, playing music and flirting with the FAs it is a bit much. Other than these 2 instances pretty good job.

Maintenance good and bad. Good. I had a maintenance guy in LAS catch a potentially catastrophic fuel leak in the #1 engine while he helped the ground crew try to disconnect a stubborn tow bar.
Bad twice I have found maintenance equipment in places on the aircraft or on the ramp where people could have been injured seriously. Of course no one takes responsibility. It did get traced. In the Air Force there would have been at minimum an article 15 issued.

Many of the issues above are station dependent. Some stations are awesome (ATL has gone downhill fast) others are epic fails.

Early on, when SWA took over the "data base maintenance" for our jets, I caught huge mistakes in the company flight plans input into our FMS'. Theses seem to have been resolved.

Other irritants: Replacing the AirTran name on the wall outside of our ATL ops with "Southwest Airlines". Why not Southwest /AirTran Airlines? We are still there. File cabinets in ATL. SWA has taken half the filing cabinets in our ATL domicile when 2/3's or more of the pilots there are AT.

Commuting on SWA.
Not a very friendly experience. It seems pilots (maybe it is just AT guys) are second class when commuting. I feel like I am hat in hand asking a customer service agent for a seat. This is when OPs agents shine for it is only by their good graces am I often ever able to get my bags on board with out having to gate check them. At AT we went out of our way to help commuters and try to get them business class if possible. We let them come on early to get their bags on to ease their commute. Does not seem to happen much in my experience with SWA.

So what am I saying here. I am saying there is a lot of room for improvement. I have no interest other than SWA succeeding. There is a lot of new and hungry re-vamped and energized legacy carriers and low cost upstarts with good or different ( or arguable better) products. We can not continue this way and survive. Yes SWA has done well to date but times and markets change, so must SWA.

I read these slogans on the hallway wall in the ATL OPs. If they were taken to heart there would be no stopping SWA. Things like "Display a sense of urgency" We start acting urgently because looking like you are working is not actually getting any work done.

Live the Southwest Way (really try to, want to, but..)

Warrior Spirit ("Let me hear your war cry. You don't scare me, work on it.")

Work hard (We need to have results as well)

Desire to be the best ( Not seeing it, We can desire all we want but

I am not seeing the ethics to make it happen)

Be courageous (we all get out of bed in the morning )

Display a sense of urgency ( see above)

Perservere ( SWA has done this to date, but it is a far different reality than I have read in "NUTS" and other books about SWAs culture and business model)

Innovate ( Not happening. SWA has AT who had embraced technology( mostly because it is cheaper and more efficient) but every new idea is lost in communal input / committee and takes years to see the light of day, or it is most often ignored out right because it did not come from within the company)

Servant’s Heart

Follow the Golden Rule (I won't go here because of the arguments that will follow)

Adhere to the Basic Principles (??)

Treat others with respect ( I do not feel there is true back an forth with this. I do not honestly feel the varied employee groups (amongst ground ops) are working together or with AT crews. They often pull in different directions in order to gain a sphere of influence within the company. I treat others with respect but they are often either surprised or unimpressed and it is often not reciprocated)

Put others first ( See treat others with respect, and below)

Be egalitarian ( We are not all equal. Everyone's job is important, but at different times. Who ever is holding the football need to be put ahead of all others while they are holding it. Be it ops, management, ground handling, ETC.. we as a group need to put that person or group ahead ourselves while they get their job done right)

Demonstrate proactive Customer Service ( I do see this. SWA does a good job, but not entirely in harmony)

Embrace the SWA Family (they are not embracing me as an AT despite any overtures on my part. I guess am not consider a part of the team yet)

Fun-LU Ving Attitude

Have FUN ( Hard to do working 25 days a month; my personal choice with 3 jobs not a SWA issue)

Don’t take yourself too seriously ( I never have, but too many people at SWA and AT do take themselves way to seriously, the 10%ers)

Maintain perspective (balance) ( hard to when you are looking up the mountain rather than down from on high, this is a management /leadership discussion)

Celebrate successes (SWA does, but not any of the AT successes achieved, like the #1 AQR that AT had after SWA acquired AT certainly not in a serious way)

Enjoy your work ( I really try to. It is difficult when you work hard and find your efforts continually frustrated by those who do not display a similar ethics as those listed above. Once in the cockpit looking down from above life is good and I am doing or have done my part)

Be a passionate Teamplayer ( I would love to be but SWA is not letting play ball within the rules of the game they have presented us, those rules being those listed above. I have yet to be given the uniform, the rights, or the equal status or the treated with respect they ask of me for themselves)


So what is the take away? I have decide to hitch a ride on the SWA train. The question was asked what we like and do not like (not a hater). Here is some honest feedback from an AT FO with 7 years flying 737's and 18 years flying Air Force aircraft CONUS and world wide. AT was far from perfect but I really took pride in my share of the success we had at little ol AirTran. It seemed our hard work made a difference in statistics, awards ETC. Now as I struggle to make a difference, be it showing early to the aircraft, or being expeditious in our turns we leave late continuously. No one seems to care. My concern is the customers will care and we will lose market share to up starts who charge less for what customers may perceive to be a similar poor product. (yes I am aware of SWA customer satisfaction ratings but these will slide is my point)

I want SWA to succeed. I think there are many ways to innovate, cooperate and integrate our best practices that would lead to unparalleled success. We need also to admit that neither group had a lock on the right way of doing things. We need to have the humility and courage to try new ways of getting the job done. We need to have respect for each other, for the customer, and for the product we produce. By actually following those rules above we can put forth a good product, be number one in: on-time, loyalty, bag handling, customer satisfaction, and earn AQR type awards. With that will come self-respect for the work we do and that measure of pride will let us Have fun, and enjoy our work more.

Sorry for the boy scout reply, the flag waving. Not hating, but wanting someone at SWA to demonstrate they care and light a fire under the butts of those whose own self-interest is primary when they come to work.

Really if you want a lens to focus or a metric to measure all the rules above pushing back on time ,safely, with a plane full of content passengers would that measure of success. It would demonstrate a harmony and unity of purpose. It would be handing the ball to us as pilots to deliver safely to the goal line. This is rarely done of late and we sadly lag our competitors.

It is late. I would appreciate honest feedback, not defensive in nature. I am open to discussion. What if anything at SWA is being done to improve things? Is it even being noticed? Are there things I am missing? Rules I do not know about? I have a very hard time letting go and not caring. I believe by not caring we become slipshod in our work ethics and lives in general.

Fly safe, don't hate,
Merry Christmaquansaramahannakadan, and on 25 Dec Merry Christmas!
Boogie

Frank Rizzo

There's your problem.

Don't be the only guy who gives a crap. Management knows where the problems are. If they want to fix them, they will.

SlipKid

Well, in that case, you're equally guilty for your current situation.

As for "fair" treatment, our definitions likely differ greatly.

I find it funny that you'd think that there is any kind of "strong" association between SWApA and the line pilots. I've been a member of 3 different pilot unions at a bunch of carriers (SWApA, ALPA and another independent) in my career, and I've never seen a more apathetic group of pilots, nor a "union" that completely disregards the line pilots (well, the few that actually attempt to get involved) as blatantly as SWApA does.


I never mentioned the word staple, but of course, that would've been the best outcome for every SW pilot. Conversely, stapling all the SW guys to the bottom of a combined list would've been the best outcome for the AT guys. I am sure you would've been fine with that, so quit that nonsense.

Since a staple wasn't gonna happen in any case, (While there were certainly people who were screaming for it, SWApA wouldn't even entertain the idea) it is moot to even discuss it.