Hiring -- have the calls started yet
12-19-2013, 03:48 AM
#151
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 37
The peers I was referring to are the professional pilot peer group as a whole. Not any particular airline. On this message board and on a broader scope this profession. Your comments are self-serving and offensive. I feel sorry for you and I hope you are able to make peace with yourself and your family.
You're outta your league speaking on this topic. What do you think would happen if someone signed up for the baseops forums to tell you your *****es and complaints you've posted about ADAF were unjustified? General Chang ring a bell?
Welcome to the airlines, brother.
12-19-2013, 04:23 AM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,026
P.S I do chuckle at the Flatish won't Fly" bag tags, keeping in mind I do the same job for 40% less.
SWA may have great scope but if you think about it SWA undercuts SWAPA by paying AT pilot less for routes you could be cashing in on.
"SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible." I do realize it all about business, and I view this whole merger with that in mind and try not to take it too personal.
SWA may have great scope but if you think about it SWA undercuts SWAPA by paying AT pilot less for routes you could be cashing in on.
"SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible." I do realize it all about business, and I view this whole merger with that in mind and try not to take it too personal.
Who do we have to thank for that situation?
12-19-2013, 06:25 AM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 737CA
Posts: 186
[QUOTE]AT 12 year Cptn rate: $175/hr.
SW 12 year FO rate: $133/tfp
According to your own illustrious union, the conversion is 1.15 X tfp rate = the equivalent hourly rate.
/QUOTE]
Lets look at that a little closer. Some Airtran captains will take a pay cut. Especially if they have to commute. The top ten percent of the seniority list of captains will definitely have to fly more(less days off and work the system than they do today). Since SWA does am/pm pairings, one side is commutable the other is not. Great for productive pairings but bad for a commuter. Some junior captains it will be a wash and I would argue a raise some what(depending what group you got locked into on the SIA). Especially if you live in domicile.
If your a 10 yr captain, your probably on reserve(although now we have 15 yr guys bidding reserve now). Odds of breaking reserve guarantee are slim(75 hr for LC and 78 hr for SC). So what ever your seniority, if you bid reserve you won't break guarantee. If you are on reserve BY no choice IMO you will get more money at SWA.
Senior line holders who have to commute will lose money unless you fly more per month. Thats the reality. That may only apply to a couple of hundred guys but that's a fact. By the time those top 10% guys go over they will be at 180/hr. Those guys right now can pull 85-90 hrs a month credit(I do). I will pull in 202,000.00 this yr. No premium pay, nothing fancy. Four weeks vac, checkrides, recurrent. No bonus either. That equates to about 16,833.00 per month. If you break it out further that will be about 126TRP per month. If the lines average a little over 100 TRP per month that means extra flying required to get to even. Either in reroutes(time and half) and premium trips. If you live in domicile I think that is doable but if you commute it may be difficult. Don't know.
[QUOTE]P.S I do chuckle at the Flatish won't Fly" bag tags, keeping in mind I do the same job for 40% less./QUOTE]
I do find it funny also. Since we at Airtran went all the way to the strike vote, writing up airplanes left and right, picketing, taxing slow, fatigue calls and sick calls. I think its safe to say it will be a LONG time before SWA management begins to shake in their boots about the pilots. SWA pilots are on a gravy train and will not rock the boat. No way no how. Management knows it, hence why section 6 negotiations are SLOW. IMO they have at least 2 more yrs before they can even begin to rattle the cage some what. When all the other legacy carriers pass them up in pay and retirement maybe then SWAPA will have the upper hand.
SW 12 year FO rate: $133/tfp
According to your own illustrious union, the conversion is 1.15 X tfp rate = the equivalent hourly rate.
/QUOTE]
Lets look at that a little closer. Some Airtran captains will take a pay cut. Especially if they have to commute. The top ten percent of the seniority list of captains will definitely have to fly more(less days off and work the system than they do today). Since SWA does am/pm pairings, one side is commutable the other is not. Great for productive pairings but bad for a commuter. Some junior captains it will be a wash and I would argue a raise some what(depending what group you got locked into on the SIA). Especially if you live in domicile.
If your a 10 yr captain, your probably on reserve(although now we have 15 yr guys bidding reserve now). Odds of breaking reserve guarantee are slim(75 hr for LC and 78 hr for SC). So what ever your seniority, if you bid reserve you won't break guarantee. If you are on reserve BY no choice IMO you will get more money at SWA.
Senior line holders who have to commute will lose money unless you fly more per month. Thats the reality. That may only apply to a couple of hundred guys but that's a fact. By the time those top 10% guys go over they will be at 180/hr. Those guys right now can pull 85-90 hrs a month credit(I do). I will pull in 202,000.00 this yr. No premium pay, nothing fancy. Four weeks vac, checkrides, recurrent. No bonus either. That equates to about 16,833.00 per month. If you break it out further that will be about 126TRP per month. If the lines average a little over 100 TRP per month that means extra flying required to get to even. Either in reroutes(time and half) and premium trips. If you live in domicile I think that is doable but if you commute it may be difficult. Don't know.
[QUOTE]P.S I do chuckle at the Flatish won't Fly" bag tags, keeping in mind I do the same job for 40% less./QUOTE]
I do find it funny also. Since we at Airtran went all the way to the strike vote, writing up airplanes left and right, picketing, taxing slow, fatigue calls and sick calls. I think its safe to say it will be a LONG time before SWA management begins to shake in their boots about the pilots. SWA pilots are on a gravy train and will not rock the boat. No way no how. Management knows it, hence why section 6 negotiations are SLOW. IMO they have at least 2 more yrs before they can even begin to rattle the cage some what. When all the other legacy carriers pass them up in pay and retirement maybe then SWAPA will have the upper hand.
12-19-2013, 08:46 AM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
First who knows if I will able to bid a hard line rather than sit on reserve let alone bid away from redeyes. Yes hopefully I will.
As far as I know the SLI says all furloughs will come from the AT side first. Yes why furlough when you are hiring. As you stated "SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible" What is to say they don't furlough those left at AT while we wait for training slots? That would solve the problem of AT pilots as captains (near term). Will the CBA cover us while on the AT side while still under the AT contract or will the SLI take precedent? Who is to say SWA doesn't shut us down furlough us despite any protections and stonewall as long as possible while lawyers hash it out. I can't imagine SWAPA too worried about anything on our side of the partition. Again " SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible".
Just saying we have concerns and no assurances based on implied promises that fell far short.
Example 717's 'till 2017, TPA 717 Base, 737s to cross over first, Everyone at SWA by mid 2014.
Making the best of it though, I got the holidays off for the first time! First choice of vacation next year.
I do appreciate the thoughtful reply
Thanks
Boogie
P.S I do chuckle at the Flatish won't Fly" bag tags, keeping in mind I do the same job for 40% less.
SWA may have great scope but if you think about it SWA undercuts SWAPA by paying AT pilot less for routes you could be cashing in on.
"SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible." I do realize it all about business, and I view this whole merger with that in mind and try not to take it too personal.
As far as I know the SLI says all furloughs will come from the AT side first. Yes why furlough when you are hiring. As you stated "SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible" What is to say they don't furlough those left at AT while we wait for training slots? That would solve the problem of AT pilots as captains (near term). Will the CBA cover us while on the AT side while still under the AT contract or will the SLI take precedent? Who is to say SWA doesn't shut us down furlough us despite any protections and stonewall as long as possible while lawyers hash it out. I can't imagine SWAPA too worried about anything on our side of the partition. Again " SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible".
Just saying we have concerns and no assurances based on implied promises that fell far short.
Example 717's 'till 2017, TPA 717 Base, 737s to cross over first, Everyone at SWA by mid 2014.
Making the best of it though, I got the holidays off for the first time! First choice of vacation next year.
I do appreciate the thoughtful reply
Thanks
Boogie
P.S I do chuckle at the Flatish won't Fly" bag tags, keeping in mind I do the same job for 40% less.
SWA may have great scope but if you think about it SWA undercuts SWAPA by paying AT pilot less for routes you could be cashing in on.
"SWA will continue to operate its schedule as cheaply as possible, exploiting all savings available for as long as possible." I do realize it all about business, and I view this whole merger with that in mind and try not to take it too personal.
The absolute last AirTran guy on the seniority list will have 277 pilots below him on the global list which will translate to a line holder in multiple bases.
As far as I know the SLI says all furloughs will come from the AT side first.
Furloughs will happen in inverse seniority from the global list once all are transitioned. I suppose there is a chance that SWA could furlough those on the AT side prior to 1/1/15, but I find that hard to fathom since on 1/1/15 all pilots will be on the SWAPA CBA whether transitioned or not and those pilots would have to be brought back on that date because those former AT pilots would no longer be the most junior on the global list.
12-19-2013, 08:34 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 174
12-20-2013, 02:29 PM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
12-20-2013, 02:35 PM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
As for all the AT Cptn. to SW F/O pay cut/pay raise argument and banter, I advise those involved to talk to actual pilots who fit the description and have made the transition.
The ironic part is that unless you were a very senior AT Cptn who is now bidding in the top ten in your base as an FO (top 10, not 10%), it's been a pay cut when doing a comparison of equal number of days worked.
Only those former AT Cptns who can and are seriously able to play the premium time game are making more than they formally did. If you don't believe me then just ask those who've transitioned.
The ironic part is that unless you were a very senior AT Cptn who is now bidding in the top ten in your base as an FO (top 10, not 10%), it's been a pay cut when doing a comparison of equal number of days worked.
Only those former AT Cptns who can and are seriously able to play the premium time game are making more than they formally did. If you don't believe me then just ask those who've transitioned.
12-20-2013, 02:48 PM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
The peers I was referring to are the professional pilot peer group as a whole. Not any particular airline. On this message board and on a broader scope this profession. Your comments are self-serving and offensive. I feel sorry for you and I hope you are able to make peace with yourself and your family.
Quite frankly, many of your new and soon to be new coworkers (those that have transitioned and those that will) could give two schits about who they offend. The nerve.......
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